Thursday, August 7, 2008
A Numbers-Game Game
It has come to my mind, folks, that the so-called reduction in violence in Iraq may in fact be open to interpretation. It seems that the present statistics have not been including car-bombings, a popular form of mayhem in Iraq that's apparently been killing and maiming dozens of civilians each week. I need to do more research on this BUT, if it IS true, damned if the Bush administration and Senators McCain/Lieberman/Graham (the 3 Amigos) ALL need to be criticized here. I know it's a lot to ask of our government to give us the whole truth (nor at this point should we even expect it) and all, but this would be ridiculous...........................................P.S. Thank God there isn't a law saying that we ourselves can't go probing for this truth. Well, at least there isn't one in the constitution that I've been reading, anyway.
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23 comments:
Two things,
1. al Sadr says if the US doesn't give a timetable for allowing the Iraqis to run their own country with out US interference, he will end his cease fire, which has nothing to do with the surge proper. Shiites comprise around 60% of the population.
2. The very tricky problem of Kirkuk could destabilize that entire region of Iraq and have the Kurdish Peshmerga and Sunni fanatics going after each other, and that will make the situation in Iraq from the spring of 2006 thru Aug 2007 look rather mild in comparison. The rest of the population
If either happens the surge will be shown for what it really was, Baghdad violence control ops for the MSM, since none could freely move about the country, and very few do now. The surge was more about political gains at home then any real world political military gains on the ground in Iraq.
and if both happens;
Iraq would become a very large three party version of the worst of Yugoslavia and Northern Ireland combined with the US troops stuck in the middle.
Iraq is far from being what the Bush administration, McCain's campaign and the corporate owned MSM claims it is.
NO amount of American troops being from a predominately Christian western country can solve the inter faith sectarian rivalries and looming civil war when each can not achieve their complete objectives by any non-violent means.
To think other wise is to fall in the trap the British Empire did in Afghanistan in the 19th century, Iraq post WW1 and the Soviets did in Afghanistan in the 1980's.
A temporary* lull in violence can be used by insurgents for plans for future gains especially if they see the direction factors on the ground both in country and here are taking. *(Temporary because even though it might last a year or more, the insurgents don't have a rotation policy and they know at some point we have to go home, THEY ARE HOME)
However because our policy is still driven by a sound bite mentality and the 24 hour news cycle, the claims of those who frame foreign policy in such a manner will win the day just never the war.
You're basically reiterating points I've already made over the past 15 months. Thanks, I guess.
Gee, haven't you heard?
Mookie's laying down his guns. The Mahdi army is going to be reorganized into a community service group....duh.
It also seems to me that "American troops from a predominately Christian western country" had a similar problem with warmongering religious zealotry a few years back.
In that particular case we demanded total unconditional surrender, wrote their constitution for them and then sent in missionaries to convert them to Christianity.
As I recall, that worked out pretty well...
(we also didn't add them to our "empire", although I do think we still have troops there.)
This is the problem we've had since the 60's, You can't win a war with spineless politicians who want smart bombs, targeted strikes and limited civilian casualties.
In order to actually WIN a war you have to break the will of the people to continue fighting. That requires widespread misery and lots of it.
AND your "news cycle" will continually portray their own country as "evil" and parade endless bloody and maimed "victims" across our television screens and newspapers until the will of OUR OWN PEOPLE to continue fighting is broken, thus allowing the real evil to continue unabated.
I'm sure Mikey will be along shortly to call me evil or something, but the truth is much like a fireman lighting a backfire to stop a raging forest fire, sometimes you have to do a little evil now to prevent greater evil later on.
HEY WILL!
RUSSIA JUST INVADED GEORGIA. WE'RE GETTING SOME GUYS TOGETHER AND GOING DOWN THERE IN OUR PICKUP TRUCKS.
YOU IN?
GRAB YOUR GUN AND BIBLE WE'LL PICK YOU UP.
Hey Voltron. I just don't think that these people ever will "break". My solution has always been some sort of partition. Either that or let 'em have their own civil war and try and contain it. I just can't believe Ronald Reagan (we already know about H.W.) would have ever put us in the middle of Arabia.
This is the problem we've had since the 60's, You can't win a war with spineless politicians who want smart bombs, targeted strikes and limited civilian casualties.
In order to actually WIN a war you have to break the will of the people to continue fighting. That requires widespread misery and lots of it.
AND your "news cycle" will continually portray their own country as "evil" and parade endless bloody and maimed "victims" across our television screens and newspapers until the will of OUR OWN PEOPLE to continue fighting is broken, thus allowing the real evil to continue unabated.
I'm sure Mikey will be along shortly to call me evil or something, but the truth is much like a fireman lighting a backfire to stop a raging forest fire, sometimes you have to do a little evil now to prevent greater evil later on."
Nope, i'll just correct you and tell you its an OCCUPATION NOT A WAR...............mind telling me how to win an occupation genius???????
Voltron said...
HEY WILL!
RUSSIA JUST INVADED GEORGIA. WE'RE GETTING SOME GUYS TOGETHER AND GOING DOWN THERE IN OUR PICKUP TRUCKS.
YOU IN?
GRAB YOUR GUN AND BIBLE WE'LL PICK YOU UP."
Nah that train........or is it truck LOL aallready supposedly leftt the station when you said you were going to iraq around 3 years ago...............must have had truck problems cause you didnt seem to have made it,
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
Hey Voltron. I just don't think that these people ever will "break". My solution has always been some sort of partition. Either that or let 'em have their own civil war and try and contain it. I just can't believe Ronald Reagan (we already know about H.W.) would have ever put us in the middle of Arabia."
Yeah i completely agree with you on this one.............Reagan and Bush senior would NEVER have done ANYTHING so stupid.........we need to end the failed occupation and clean up the messes in Afghanistan and our own backyard.........we need to rebuild the military, the economy, and focus on a compregensive energy plan.
You're basically reiterating points I've already made over the past 15 months. Thanks, I guess.
No problem I've been saying this since early 2006 at Lydia Cornell's blog and getting attack by duncetron just like he did here.
He let slip his kill as many as it takes to make them allow us to control THEIR country, meme .
A little kinder kill them all, all 1.6 BILLION of them that is, he USED to advocate.
Oh and dolty, the Georgia the Russians are invading is here
Probably not a good idea having the Russian army attacking a country which the US has had advisers in so close to US troops occupying another country we invaded.
Funny how things like that turned out.
Wanna know what is real funny?
US tells Russia to halt attacks in South Ossetia
that one is almost laughable;
Bush telling the Russians to STOP invading a country .....
Yea right, I can hear Putin in the background on that phone call;
"tell dat American Bushski,
when hell freezes over
or they withdraw from Iraq,
which ever comes first"
Voltron made a funny, guys. Who told you it was against the rules to put down your talking-points and laugh? The Zazis? You guys just take yourselves way too seriously. Say hi to Nicholas.
Oh, and tell him I just picked up a superb biography of Montgomery Clift. He'll get a kick out of that.
Voltron made a funny
where in his depends?
I never advocated killing them all Clif. Just their leaders.
I actually advocated "deprogramming" for the vast majority. I think it would be an act of kindness to get them out of their death cult.
Kill the ones that would kill the Christian missionaries, and then let the missionaries do their work.
And after thinking about it, war need not be the answer.
How about this position:
Commit a terrorist act, lose a mosque?
We could start with the one in Israel just to show we're serious.
(the Jews have been wanting to rebuild their temple for a long time anyway...)
In the end they might have to face a smoldering crater to pray.
According to your logic Dolt, the Iraqi's probably have enough grievances against the United States for all the illegal terror George W Bush has wrought on their country, that they might eliminate most all the Christian churches here,
It is fair if they USE the same logic you are right dolty?
Or are you still of the mind that we get to decide what is terror ..... even for them in their country?
You just might wanna re-thunk it a bit ............
No Dolty..........what you ACTUALLY said paraphrased of course was kill their leaders and the the 1.6 billion muslims the option of converting or dying............and lets not beat around the bush here shall we "deprogramming" is code word for torture if you doubt that do some research on what deprogramming is and what it entails.
So basically to deprogram or exterminate 1.6 billion people like you have advocated you would need lots of Concentration camps like Hitler.................Hey Will you with your genocidal buddy on this on?
You got aweful quiet on the last thread Billy........kinda hard to rebutt facts with opinions, outrageous unsubstantiated claims and looney conspiracy theories huh?
I have a feeling I'll be waiting a clong time for you to actually address the facts i posted..........I wont hold my breath!
No need for concentration camps Mike, since being a "Martyr" is such a great thing, we'll just get them all to stand in one spot and call in the Air Force...
Geez, maybe we all need to step back and relax. Nuts Anyone?
Voltron made a funny in his depends. Actually, Clif, that's not bad. Maybe there is some hope for you. Mike, ehhhh
So is deprogramming teenagers who join cults "torture"?
I don't know ....
I do know how much certain people screech when you suggest they stop drinking the Atwater-Rovian kool-aid ......
The latest version of that "kult" is around 28 years old so some of them "teenagers" are around 50 or so probably with granny hips by now.
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