Friday, August 22, 2008
Like Sands Through a...............
There's this one extremely important point that you have to realize, folks. Every second of your life that you spend trying to reason with these paranoids - that's a second (a precious one) that you're never, ever, EVER, going to get back. I mean, think about it. One less second of Garbo. One less second of Clift. One less second of Smetana/Mussorgsky. One less second of Gide and Flannery O'Connor. One less second of Georges Roualt, for Christ! I mean, sure, it's human-nature to want to counter everything, every bit and piece of dogmatism, per se. But is it really worth it? Me, I'm beginning to think less and less so..........................................P.S. One thing, though, that I will always condemn is Cliffolaus's boorish/moronic homophobia. This, I'm saying, in that, yes, I have a lot of gay friends and acquaintances who, damn it, folks, don't deserve a fifth of the bull-shit that this skank has been peddling. If in fact we DO have to pick our battles here, this would be as good a one as any, I'm thinking.
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22 comments:
Will: I was away for a while. Obviously things have escalated a bit. I guess this is why I am most reluctant to sign up and post in the Blogosphere. It's too bad. I love Media Matters and Think Progress but can't stand the pissing contests that go on...Guess even small posts like yours aren't immune...
Funny thing is I have been over at Lydia's but I am afraid to post there...I would like to think that on most topics we agree. I know if I veer just a bit from the approved dialog I will get tarred...I've tried to promote civility whereever I go, but ultimately even THAT gets shouted down. Good luck Will. I will try to visit if things calm down.
Oh and "anonymous clif",
No "ass handing" was done, other than Bart just showing his.
There was no intent to "lie" or mislead. Bart's used both "love us" and "loves Obama" in regard to world opinion in different posts in different threads.
AND his distinction the other night doesn't change MY argument one bit.
Ok fine, The world loves "OBAMA" not "us".
It's still because they think they'll get something from him (us) they can't with anyone else in charge.
And I agree with them. I think he'll give away the store.
And another thing, You know as well as I do that Bart loves to play word games and semantics.
Bart says "the world LOVES Obama and HATES McCain" and he wants Obama for president.
Just what is the underlying inference there? Just like I said, "IF Obama is president, the world will LOVE US".
Bart LOVES to lay things between the lines so when someone replies he can claim he never said that, and then go off on a long winded rant.
Welcome to the club Marcus.
Although I try to be civil, I have allowed myself to get drug down into the mud on occasion.
It is funny though, Lydia's group seems to think they're pretty mainstream and everyone agrees with them, but if Keith Olbermann said it was dark out in the daytime they'd tar and feather anybody who claimed different.
(and I'm sure that Cliffy would pull out charts and graphs showing there was a total eclipse that day in Olbermann's neighborhood)
I must have a dark streak though. Arguing with them is like teasing retarded kids, and I do get a kick out of it on occasion.
Hell, Lydia would proclaim it "hate speech" and recommend that whoever said it should be banned from public speaking and jailed for life.
(after a fair trial in the Hague of course...)
You see, they just want to get back to what our founding fathers intended.
So anyway, Post away Marcus.
Don't be surprised though if your only support comes from the other side though...
Actually Voltron, we have had a couple of "discussions" before...I was going by MK then. I know I don't agree with you 85% of the time but I guess its OK. Most of the time you don't seem to lose your cool and from where I am coming from, thats commendable.
The management where I work are very conservative and I am the lone liberal voice. I get screamed at repeatedly so I remain silent...Guess they won the arguement. In truth, wheather you are conservative or liberal, its just a general philosophy about how government should be. You would probrably argue that government should not intervene in ordinary daily affairs. I would state that the governemnt should sometimes monitor the situation and set guidelines, regs that we can live with. A bit simplistic yes but on that level there is no screaming involved. Anyway thanks for the words. Hope we can agree to disagree...regards.
Hi guys. I was afraid to check the comments here because I assumed it would be Mike calling me a closet right-winger or something; Bill O'Reilly's clone, perhaps. The frustrating thing for me is that I really do try and call it down the middle (which is actually where I am politically - a cross between Sam Nunn and Nelson Rockefeller - politically, I said, not intellectually or financially). But when you do that, you please nobody. Well, you guys give me a fair read. I appreciate that. P.S. I never should have said that I thought Rusty was "funny", huh?
As for keeping one's cool, obviously I'm coming up a little short on that one. LOL It's just that Mike frustrates me. He starts off with a germ of a good idea but then he goes nuts with it. And it never ends. Remember that clay court tennis player from the 70s, Eddie Dibbs? He just kept hitting it back at you - nothing on it but, still. And the thing is, I have so much patience at work, even with the Alzheimer's patients, EVEN THIS GUY WHO SWINGS AT ME? Why can't I do better with Mike? What to do, what to do?
Hi Marcus,
I remember the name MK, but not the "discussions".
Actually the 85% disagreement rate is quite good. I have conservative friends who disagree with me at least 90% of the time...
(deep down inside though I believe they know they're wrong)
LOL
Voltron: I can't remeber the first discussion. The second turned on 2 issues...1) Your calling Obama "Barry". I am not much on name calling...I refer to McCain as Senator McCain even though I don't prefer him. I had to endure months of Coulter and her ilk were saying Barack Hussein Obama. Why is that important? John Sydney McCain? Guess we know the implication there...As Far as "Barry" goes, I tried to point out Obama's wrestling with his identity. You stated that he was raised by white grandparents and was thus white...case closed. Imagine Voltron, being called white by black kids and black by white kids....I say it wasn't that easy for BO...life as a kid isn't always as clear cut as pandering for street cred. 2) BO purchase of a home from A.Rezko...I consider this a non factor as well. Obama paid the best offer price of the home. The seller did not lowwer the price. The big uproar was Resko apparently bought a parcel of land ajoining or part of the property...Resko overpaid for the land, hence the charges of impropriety. The Obamas eventually bought the land from Rezko paying him more for the parcel than what he originally paid. If that is not enough, Obama held a 90 minute press conference answering all questions posed to him about the incident. Someone in the press allegdly commented that all interviews should be that opaque. Lastly, some reports state Obama bought the property with the aide of convicted felon A Rezko...the implication is that Rezko was already convicted...I thought he didn't get convicted until after the purchase...
Anyway: it amuses me when Politicians are scutinized for everything from the the moment they were born. People forget a)Politicians are human just like everyone and b)In this case both Obama and McCain are running for President not Pope or Saint or whatever...unless there is something really egregious, maybe its best to stick with the issues.
I agree. From Lincoln to Kennedy to Reagan. "Men", one and all.
"From Lincoln to Kennedy to Reagan. "Men", one and all."
Ah, but EXCEPTIONAL men who rose to the challenge of their times...
"Anyway: it amuses me when Politicians are scutinized for everything from the the moment they were born. People forget a)Politicians are human just like everyone and b)In this case both Obama and McCain are running for President not Pope or Saint or whatever...unless there is something really egregious,..."
Not asking for sainthood here, just maybe someone who hasn't been "mentored" by the likes of Frank Marshall Davis, William Ayers and Jeremiah Wright.
THAT sounds "really egregious" to me...
Like I said before, if your "friends" are drug dealers, thieves and murderers the chances that you are one of those too is pretty high - you don't hang out with or call friends someone whose morals or beliefs are not at least similar to your own.
There are too many politicians in Washington right now that don't even KNOW the limits the Constitution puts on their power, much less socialist influenced ones.
If the left TRULY wants to get back to what the founding fathers intended, you can't do that by turning to Marx.
Like I said before, if your "friends" are drug dealers, thieves and murderers the chances that you are one of those too is pretty high
I bet Jesus Christ and his followers would disagree with ya.
Bet they wouldn't.
Unless of course you're trying to say your Messiah was trying to save Davis, Ayers, and Wrights immortal soul?
Voltron:
About William Ayers:
1. Obama condemned his act of violence.
2. Didn't what Ayers do take place, what, 40 years ago when Obama was what, 6-7 years old?
3. Ayers I guess has tried make right with his life. Obama first met him some years back at an EDUCATION FORUM in Chicago. (Not exactly a hot bed of terrorism if ya ask me.) This forum was attended by all sorts of individuals, including Mayor Daly. Ironic isn't it? Daly was the one who prosecuted Ayers when he was States Attourney, but here they are at an education forum...guilt by association? Sometimes yes and sometimes no...I think there is nothing of substance here.
Rev. Wright.
Well what can you say? A lot of Black churches have expressed frustration in same manner that Wright did. Does not make it right but Wright represents the past not the future of race relations. Obama expressed this in his address on race some months ago.It seems clear to me that Obama does not think like Wright or agree with him on everything. I USED TO BE a born again Christian. My pastor at that time bashed gays, anyone would drank alcohol...even in moderation, etc. Did I agree with it even though he was my Pastor? No.They were other theological issues that maybe we did not see eye to eye but the pastor meant well in his own way...
If you ask me the presidential race should be about Obama v McCain. What I see here is republican punditry "subtly" changing the context, e.g. Obama and everyone he has ever known since the day he was born who has ever said or did anything stupid versus McCain. Not exactly a fair way to judge people, at least in my view! LOL!
Correct me if I'm wrong here, folks. But I just don't feel a Voltron endorsement of Obama coming out any time soon. UNLESS..............what about Obama/Voltron. Now that's a ticket! LOL With Mike as Secretary of Energy (who else, right?). Seriously, though, while I understand what Voltron is saying, I just think that this is a very dangerous road (the guilt-by-association road) to go down. I mean, think about it, if you connect enough of these dots/dig deep enough, you're going to be able to sink anybody. This is what the LC crowd is doing over there to McCain. It starts to get momotonous....and, with both sides doing it, the monotony is deafening. There are enough things wrong with both of these candidates that the extremes really don't even need the salacious stuff. Issues, like Marcus said. As for Obama's associations, specifically, I just see those as him trying to get ahead. As sad as it is to say, this is how you adavance yourself in Chicago politics. He was being practical, in other words - just like McCain was when he kissed and made up with Falwell, sought out that other loser's endorsement (oh, yeah, Haggee). It's what they all do - not a darn thing new under the sun with these politicians. Unfortunately.
Will, tell the folks at LC's to hold their breath until I endorse Obama...LOL
Also, if we were on the same ticket I insist on top billing!
(I could print HIS name in blue letters too so it would fade into the background...)
Mike as secretary of Energy? I see rolling black outs in our future much like Cali under gray out Davis.
You may be surprised but I actually agree with you about Obama simply being opportunistic with Ayers and Wright.
His association with Davis though was in his youth before he had political aspirations.
Some Republicans have claimed that an Obama presidency would be a continuation of the Carter presidency. I see it more as a continuation of the FDR presidency by proxy.
SOMEONE is pulling this guys strings. Obama doesn't have the experience or the "gravitas" as the wonks say, to do this by himself. Without Axelrod putting words in his mouth he falls flat on his face.
And I believe Geraldine Ferraro was right. He's where he is because of his color. He's the white liberal guilt candidate.
Imagine if everything else was the same but Obama was white. Do you STILL think he'd be the Dems nominee? Not a chance. This would be Hillary's convention.
Imagine if Obama was white and was the Republican nominee. What would the Dems be saying about him right now?
Some lib online rag, Salon I think it was is already setting up the talking points for Obama's defeat. They've decided if he loses, the narrative will be it's because of "racist" white people in middle America.
(Obviously the same ones who ignorantly cling to guns and religion)
I don't know about others, but as for me it's not about race it's about ideology. I could vote for a JC Watts. I just can't vote for Obama.
You actually make a very good point (yes, Clifffff, I'm agreeing with Voltron - add this to the conspiracy theory). When Clarence Thomas was nominated to the Supreme Court (truth in advertising, I didn't support him, either), the Democrats kept sounding off on his lack of experience (among other things, obviously). Granted, Obama has gotten actual votes during his rise to the top but in terms of partisan reaction, some interesting parallels.
In terms of human imperfection, our discussions of it etc., I've even heard tales that Garbo wasn't perfect. Not sure I believe 'em, though.
SOMEONE is pulling this guys strings. Obama doesn't have the experience or the "gravitas" as the wonks say, to do this by himself.
Yes he does, because of the community work he did, because of the street organizing in some of the meanest streets in Chicago.
he has the education and LIFE experience, to be able to achieve what he did,
Yes he had help but so did every other modern campaign for the White house, every one.
Barack is NOT having any string being pulled, but it is a nice theory for a right wing admitted bigot* to use.
Because then your narrow minded view of the world doesn't have to change.
*any body who wants to kill 1.6 BILLION people just for their religion is a bigot at best.
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