Tuesday, February 17, 2009
Free Lunch for Full Bellies
It seems as if one of the provisions in the stimulus package is financial assistance for people currently paying for COBRA (health insurance that a worker can purchase from their employer, once that person is laid off). I don't know, I guess that the government is going to kick in for a certain percentage of it or something.....................................................Well, let me tell you something there, folks, as a person who (for several years back in the early 2000s) had to dish out some serious money for this expense, I have to say that I'm in favor of this part of the plan. I mean, seriously, that shit is expensive. And the fact that you really can't go without it, either (especially at a certain age)........................................................But even with this obviously well-intentioned provision, might there not be at least a modicum of prudence here, too? Take, for instance, the likelihood that a certain percentage of these people being laid off may not need the financial assistance, at least not immediately. Do we have to subsidize them, too (people with $200,000-300,000 in the bank, I'm saying, who can afford to purchase the COBRA on their own)? I personally don't think that we should. Not with a 10 plus TRILLION dollar debt, we shouldn't. Means-test the son-of-a-bitch!
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34 comments:
So Willy is saying that helping productive people that have 200K-300K in the bank is some type of "subsidy"
Your quick to be judge jury and executioner on other peoples money pal, but you know next to nothing on how an economy friggin works you dope, 300K isnt alot of money willy, you think small and you probably live small.
Most people who actually have 300K are productive people who usually provide jobs for people like you Willy so think twice before your self righteous crap about who deserves help and who doesnt makes you look foolish.
Ad hominems, aside, we do have to be at least a little careful as to how we deficit-spend these days. I mean, seriously, by the time we get done with Obama's bailouts, stimulus packages, etc., we just might be looking at a 3 trillion dollar deficit. WE FRIGGING HAVE TO MAKE CHOICES!! Our unwillingness to do so in the past is one of the reasons we ended up like this. Yes, if you have $300,000 in the bank then, clearly, you should be able to afford paying for your own insurance, at least for a while. Sorry, but that's my opinion, guy. You have a different one, I gather.
Tella ya what Willy boy, hows a bout you spend every cent you have and leave yourself without a friggin penny before takin any government dole before you tell other more successful people how to spend theirs or what they should or shouldnt be entitled to get.
I've worked hard all my life to save a little dough and and live comfortably and for some little man without 2 dimes to rub together who wouldnt know success if it bit him on the nose to tell me i'm not entitled to the same help people like him are and that I should be forced to spend everything i've worked hard my entire life to build because only screw ups that didnt pay attention in school and cant responsibly make it without the dole are worthy of help shows you are a head case.
Willy thinks the incompetent should be rewarded and the productive and hard working that provide jobs for his kind should be penalized, you have a distorted view of how things should work pal.
Break em in half Willy your raving and incoherent.
Why are the unproductive and unsuccessful always so hellbent on redistributing others income.
And why are the people who are clueless about how the economy works with distorted incoherent information always the ones who "think" they know what should be done, and what people a lot smarter than they are, are entitled to.
Tell ya what Willy, when you own more than one home then you give me a call ok champ.
"Why are the unproductive and unsuccessful always so hellbent on redistributing others income."
Why are SOME of the productive and successful hellbent on redistributing others income?
"I've worked hard all my life to save a little dough and and live comfortably and for some little man without 2 dimes to rub together who wouldnt know success if it bit him on the nose to tell me i'm not entitled to the same help people like him are..."
I've worked hard all MY life too, and I'm probably not as successful as you are.
I don't want your money, why do you think you deserve mine?
This is one of the most incredibly
insipid arguments I've ever been a witness to.
Although I'm not a fan of ANYONE being on the public dole, a more convincing case can be made that at least SOME public generosity to the less fortunate can ease the burden to the public down the road.
You seem to think that because you're fairly well off you're more deserving? Really, give me a break.
AND I can't understand WHY someone who claims to be so comfortable would want to give the government control of his health care.
Mr. Anonymous, the government doesn't have money of it's own.
The money it gives belongs to the people, and when it gives it back to someone there are ALWAYS strings attached. It's about control and freedom.
I may not be as "rich" as you, but I would much rather pay every last cent I have to get the health care I want and need, than to be told what doctors I can see or what medications or treatments I'm allowed to have.
The poor on the public dole have no such freedom, nor should they.
I just read a story recently about an 85 year old man in England. He was seriously ill and there WERE treatments which could have saved him. But due to cost analysis they decided that the shortness of his life expectancy outweighed the cost of the treatment. He died.
That is socialized medicine.
How would you explain that to his son, daughter, wife or grandchildren?
No thanks. You and the government can keep your money. Just don't come in here and tell me you better deserve mine.
How do you know how "successful" or unsuccessful I am? I WAS able to afford to pay for the COBRA and DIDN'T expect it to be paid for me. I own my own place, clear, am vested for teacher retirement, and have a good professional career TODAY. And I'm AGAINST "redistributing" the wealth (I've actually advocated a version of the flat-tax, fyi). You might want to get your facts straight before run at the mouth like a moron.
Guess we told him, huh, Voltron? Seriously, though, I'm just trying to keep the deficit down and, no, paying the COBRA for unemployed stock-brokers/investment bankers isn't even the least bit the part of my plan. Later, dude.
Will, I just believe in the concept of the "rugged individual".
I'd rather die poor and free, than die comfortably in shackles.
And "generosity" is when private individuals give of their own accord rather than at the governments gun point.
The government should be the very last place you look for a handout, not the first, rich or poor.
I believe in limited government, too. But we as a society have an obligation to take care of groups like the elderly, the mentally ill, the mentally challenged, etc.. As long as we don't waste the money, I think it's something we really need to do.
I agree with you Will, but consider this. Before FDR and the raw deal many generations of a family often lived in the same house.
Most children were raised by their grandparents while their mothers and fathers worked to support both their children and their parents.
Children for the most part respected their parents and grandparents and as they grew they often worked beside them. They learned from them, they formed strong bonds with them.
Enter Social Security.
Grandparents no longer needed to live with their children, children no longer benefited as much from their love, help and wisdom. The bonds grew weaker.
Parents no longer had the burden of supporting their predecessors. They didn't have to work as hard and had more leisure time. The media catered to this and they became more and more self centered and hedonistic.
Well, if you don't have to care for your parents why should you have to raise your kids either?
How about day care?
And it goes on and on until you have children who don't respect their parents or their grandparents. Nobody thinks they really need each other. Children don't learn responsibility or wisdom.
FDR broke apart the American family unit just like welfare did to the black family.
Nobody is suggesting that the poor or mentally ill or children shouldn't be taken care of. But it's better done by their families first. Charitable organizations second, and government only if ABSOLUTELY necessary.
The largest part of the "culture war" can be laid at FDR's feet. He put the family on the road to self destruction, and our nation on the path of moral decay.
Mikey will be along any minute with an "un-uh"..
So, Mikey's the one who's abusing me now? I thought it was 1138. As for the topic at hand here, we're only disagreeing in degree. I'm all for self help and charities. Believe me. But I work with Alzheimer's and most of them just can't live at home. And being that a convalescent home runs about $10,000 a month, most nest-eggs will run out rapidly. At that point, only the government can step in and pay for it. Sad, but true.
No thanks. You and the government can keep your money. Just don't come in here and tell me you better deserve mine!
Sorry chief but i'm not the one asking for your money or anyone eles's for that matter, your buddy Willy was the one saying he "deserves" the government ergo you and me to subsidize "his" health insurance and that I should have to spend every cent I have paying for my own and his.
All I was saying was the government should either say the hell out of health care or else give it to everyone or close to everyone.
Are you friggin saying you want Willy boy deciding who deserves or is entitled to govenment dole and who isnt?
I've worked hard all MY life too, and I'm probably not as successful as you are.
I don't want your money, why do you think you deserve mine?
This is one of the most incredibly
insipid arguments I've ever been a witness to.!
Where the hell to I even start with this cowpie and strawdog, show me one quote where i implied I wanted or deserved your money?
First off Volty you dont have any friggin real money.
Even more pertinent it was your buddy Willy who was flapping his gums about who deserves "my" money.
All I was attempting to do was point out a guy without 2 plug nickels to rub together shouldnt be deciding how "my" money should be spent and who is entitled to it no?
Although I'm not a fan of ANYONE being on the public dole, a more convincing case can be made that at least SOME public generosity to the less fortunate can ease the burden to the public down the road.
You seem to think that because you're fairly well off you're more deserving? Really, give me a break.!
Show me one example of where I opposed public generosity to the less fortunate, or where I implied i'm "more deserving because i'm well of?
Just one you candie ass
Again, Mike, I WAS 1) able to afford the COBRA and 2) DIDN'T expect it to be paid for me. The only point I was making is that, with a 12 trillion dollar debt, we, as a society, need to make some hard-core choices here. Means-testing this apparently new entitlement would clearly be an example of that.
I may not be as "rich" as you, but I would much rather pay every last cent I have to get the health care I want and need, than to be told what doctors I can see or what medications or treatments I'm allowed to have.!
Who says i'm rich Einstein, the only information i've given you two schmucks is that I have over 200K-300K in the bank if that is "rich you two schmucks are even sadder than I thought.
I have friends and neighbors that are teachers, mechanics, UAW workers making $40,000 a year that have that amount of savings thats not rich champ thats middle class.
President Obama wants to give tax cuts to those making 250K or less, are you saying he's for the "rich"
Now for the rest of your mindless crap, you obviously dont mind paying your last cent for health care cause cents is all you likely have little man.
One more thing Volty dont HMO's allready dictate what doctors we can see and what treatments we can get. I know they did for my dad.
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
How do you know how "successful" or unsuccessful I am? I WAS able to afford to pay for the COBRA and DIDN'T expect it to be paid for me. !
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...It seems as if one of the provisions in the stimulus package is financial assistance for people currently paying for COBRA (health insurance that a worker can purchase from their employer, once that person is laid off). I don't know, I guess that the government is going to kick in for a certain percentage of it or something.....................................................Well, let me tell you something there, folks, as a person who (for several years back in the early 2000s) had to dish out some serious money for this expense, I have to say that I'm in favor of this part of the plan. I mean, seriously, that shit is expensive. And the fact that you really can't go without it, either (especially at a certain age)........................................................But even with this obviously well-intentioned provision, might there not be at least a modicum of prudence here, too? Take, for instance, the likelihood that a certain percentage of these people being laid off may not need the financial assistance, at least not immediately. Do we have to subsidize them, too (people with $200,000-300,000 in the bank, I'm saying, who can afford to purchase the COBRA on their own)? !
Liar, you just said you felt "you" deserved for your health insurance to be subsidized but said guys that saved their entire life to accumulate 200k-300K should have to spend their life savings.
its funny how your so willing to spend others money Willy
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
How do you know how "successful" or unsuccessful I am?!
Well Willy boy anyone saying people that have a modest 200k-300k in the bank are "rich" or that we should give foodstamps or vouchers to people to go to Walmart will stimulate the economy couldnt be too smart or succesful.
only a fool could think that vouchers for crap manufactured in China or foodstamps would stimulate the economy anymore than a $13 a week public dole will. Like I said little man you think small and you probably live small.
The "only" way to revive the economy is to unfreeze the credit markets and revive housing.
The upper middle class and small busines "are" the economy and penalizing them is insanity. giving people like you who think small their $13 dole or Cobra payment while sticking the succesful people with the bill is economic suicide.
AND I can't understand WHY someone who claims to be so comfortable would want to give the government control of his health care.
!
Well Volty after watching my dad get told where he can go and what treatments he can get by the crooked HMO's and watching them charge 75K a year for care, i'll take my chances with the government.
One Volty, "if" Willy is as comfortable as he says then why should he get his health care subsidized and I should have to spend every cent till i'm broke.
Shouldnt mr succesful have to spend his savings and mortgage his paid off house to pay his way?
Are you saying that you and I should have to pay Willy's health care as well as our own?
Dont know about you but I dont like people who say their entitled to "me" paying their way but I can go broke and i'm not entitled to the same benefits they say they "deserve"
Again, Mike, I WAS 1) able to afford the COBRA and 2) DIDN'T expect it to be paid for me. The only point I was making is that, with a 12 trillion dollar debt, we, as a society, need to make some hard-core choices here. Means-testing this apparently new entitlement would clearly be an example of that.!
Like I said break em in half little man, your incoherent, i'm not Mike, i'm not soldier boy, i'm not Clif, and I dont have a cubby hole get a grip.
I guess your blog is aptly named, you are certainly a paranoid stooge.
Means Testing?
You just said people with 200k in savings should have to spend every cent paying for for this.
You just said we should give foodstamps and vouchers so our stimulous can be outsourced to China just like the good jobs were.
You have no clue about means tests or stimulous $13 dole checks and vouchers to China will send us into a depression not provide stimulous, little man.
Like I said I know teachers, mechanics, UAW, pizza deliver driver making 40k that have over 200K in savings you havent a clue Willy.
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
I believe in limited government, too. But we as a society have an obligation to take care of groups like the elderly, the mentally ill, the mentally challenged, etc.. As long as we don't waste the money, I think it's something we really need to do.!
Limited government accept for subsidizing what "you" want or feel your "entitled to"
Lets see your not elderly so since you feel "we" are "obligated" to take care of you, I guess it would be logical to assume you are mentally ill and/or mentally challenged right willy?
No not Mikey Will...
Doesn't sound like Bart, but he uses a lot of Bart's keywords.
I guessing it's Bart trying to be incognito...
"You'd have to pay me to go on Will's blog." Now who's the liar, Bart? We means-test food-stamps, don't we? Also, I didn't say that people with money in the bank had to spend ALL of their money before they we eligible. I just said that we shouldn't be doling out money in a time of 3 TRILLION dollar deficits to just everybody. That's all. Seriously, though, why do you have to ruin everybody's blog? It's not enough that you ruined Lydia's already?
I didn't say I "deserved" ANYTHING. I said I was in favor of the provision (this, in that it gets money into the economy) but that it shouldn't be thrown around willy-nilly. Instead of 300,000, I could have said 3 million. Would that have made a difference?
I'm not paying for COBRA anymore (and haven't since early 04), douche-bag. So it currently doesn't apply to me anyway. I had an injury in the early 2000s and for 2 12 month stints I DID have to pay for it, though. All told, I had to dish out nearly 8 grand. A little assistance would have been nice. Whether I deserved it or not, that's a different story.
Again, we means-test for food stamps. We means test for welfare. We means-test for medicaid. Are you saying that we SHOULDN'T. O.K., maybe $200,000-300,000 was a lttle low. But by focusing just on that number, you apparently missed the point all together. And, Bart, dude, I know that FDR died in office and that Truman took over in '45. In fact, I can name off the top of my head all 43 presidents (yes, Cleveland was President twice) and even a lot of the people who lost. I do Presidential trivia at work all the time with the residents. Don't you think that maybe it's about time you started acting like an adult/decent human being and stopped attacking people who you disagree with. And maybe accept their explanations, too?
The thing is, if this fellow had simply said, "Will, you know something, $200,000-300,000 really isn't all that much money anymore", I probably would have reflected and said, "Yeah, you're probably right. We prbably should up that threshold a bit." But, no, he come in here and starts getting personal, makes all sorts of accusations that he simply can't substantiate, etc.. I mean seriously, though, how ridiculous is this?
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