Thursday, December 12, 2013
The Greatest Example of Keyenesian Idiocy Ever
"Were the war to end suddenly within the next six months, were we again planning to wind up our war effort in the greatest haste, to demobilize our armed forces, to liquidate price controls, to shift from astronomical deficits to even the large deficits of the thirties - then there would be ushered in the greatest period of unemployment and industrial dislocation which any economy has ever faced."......Keynesian economist, Paul Samuelson, 1943.......Please, tell me again why we continue to listen to these numbnuts. The post war American economy of the was one of the strongest in human history and it happened not because of government spending but because (at least in my estimation) we actually cut government spending DRAMATICALLY (from a high of over 40% of GDP in 1944 to approximately 10% of it in 1946).
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35 comments:
The post-war era is a curious conundrum. Supposedly, conservatives call this a golden age, like Ozzie and Harriet. So liberals like to say, but I have yet to see a conservative say this.
Liberals also hold this to be a golden age due to high taxes and high unionization (though I am wondering if the unions then were different from what they are now: political fundraising arms that bully people into turning over millions in campaign contributions against their will).
Under it all, this was the pre-Civil Rights area. Jim Crow was still in full flower.
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By the way, I wish W-Dervish would stop sending me all those spams. Their (to use his word salad) are plugging up my inbox, messing with my blog spam filters, and making my phone go nuts and slow down with notices. The worst ones are the long hand-typed ones, as opposed to the short pasted ones. I sure wish he would stop! A huge annoyance.
I suspect a majority of those spending cuts were military related. Perhaps we should slash our current defense budget by a comparable amount.
Yeah, I get a lot of those long, rambling ones, too, dmarks. Totally feel your pain.......Jerry, this is one of the areas in which you and I essentially agree. There is no reason that the U.S. needs to spend more on defense than the rest of the planet combined and there is also no reason that Germany and Japan can't defend themselves anymore. Hell, even if we cut in real dollars the defense budget by a mere 5% (I say more but realistically), that would be $35-40 billion a year and a huge savings.
dmarks is right about the taxes in those years:
1944 ind income tax9.4% GDP
corp tax 7.1 GDP
all source total 20.9% GDP
In that era, we paid our debts rather than passing them on to the kids:
2013 ind income tax 7.3% GDP
corp tax 1.6 % GDP
all source total 16.7% GDP
Sometime between hither and yon, (when we bailed out the entire world) we fought wars without paying for them, still complained about taxes and let the debt
pile up. (sympathy for dmarks: he even
gets stuff written in Russian)
MIC tidbit-
cost of P-51 fighter plane $40K
cost 5-15 fighter $30 million
It seems WD has some sort of man crush on Will Hart,Dennis Marks and Lester Nation.
That boy is water tower material.
1) Reduce the DOD budget by 3% (in real actual dollars not reduce projected dollars) annually for a period of 15 years.
2) Reduce military foreign aid 8% annually (again in real dollars not projected) for a period of 5 years
3) Reduce the size of the standing army by 10% and close non essential military bases
worldwide.
4) End the practice of corporate lobbying and the corporate welfare we all pay for.
5) Raise taxes to Clinton era levels
Those would be my starter recomendations.
Now if only liberals would seriously consider cutting their pet programs
BB: Some disagreement. There's plenty coming in to cover wars and then some...(so they were paid for), though I agree that it could be reduced. It's the massive non-military waste that can be ignored also. So many battles in which sanity takes it on the chin. Like when the Dems tried, and won to expand the SCHIP free healthcare program for poor children so it covered rich adults too. Billions and billions per year on official government media and entertainment here and abroad, when the private sector can easily take care of this. And, of course, "entitlement" payments out of the treasury to rich people and those who have good incomes already.
It happens at the state level too: in Michigan we have had a scandal with food stamp money going to millionaires and rich college kids. One political party opposes this, and the second defends this waste.
Rusty said: "It seems WD has some sort of man crush on Will Hart,Dennis Marks and Lester Nation."
The last time I skimmed one of his love letters, it seemingly contained references to male organs and Will Hart in every sentence. He sent me two today, then I fine tuned my spam filters and it stopped.
I would also add that increasing taxes doesn't always lead to more revenue. In 1954, the top tax rate was 91% and the average per capita revenue figure was $2,600. In 1964, the top tax rate was 77% and the average per capita revenue figure was still $2,600 (adjusted for inflation). By 1984, the top tax rate had been reduced to 50% and the average per capita revenue figure mushroomed all the way to $5,700 (again, adjusted for inflation).
Will: as per RN's proposal, I am willing to accept a return to Clinton-era tax rates if it means that wildly greedy and confiscating 77% level rates remain in the ash heap along with Jim Crow and other long-gone injustices.
BB, I saw the same numbers that you did from the Tax Policy Center. Two points. a) The size of the GDP isn't figured into the equation (private sector GDP was pitiful in 1944) and b) it only looks at federal taxes. According to Heritage, if you also include state and local taxes, the number mushrooms all the way up to 26.9% in 2013 (and even the OECD has the number at 24% of GDP in 2009).
I'm not quite willing to accept Clinton era rates just yet (the top rates are already back to the 39.6% levels for everything over $400,000 and I do agree with that). The economic recovery is just too tepid at this point and so, yeah, maybe a tweak but not a total acceptance.
Dennis: I fine tuned my spam filters and it stopped.
You are lying, Dennis. I am not dumb enough to fall for this BS, either. You did not "fine tune" your spam filter. Also, the only reason I speak of mail organs (intentional misspelling) is because YOU keep bringing it up (and lying about what I write). There is still no chance at all that I will ever send you the explicit pictures of my package that you strongly desire. You need to give up on that one. Perhaps Will or Lester would be willing to send you such a picture? I don't know if they swing that way, but it couldn't hurt to ask. I mean, everyone already knows you want such a picture (or pictures) from me, so they already know that you're a pervert. I'm sure they would not be surprised at all to receive such a request directed at them... as opposed to directed at me. I say Dennis should go for it. He may find his wildest dreams fulfilled. I've never bragged about my equipment, size-wise. So, that Dennis thinks what I have is so impressive is something that he imagined. But Will or Lester might posses units of substantial size. I have no idea. But I think that if that is what he is looking for (pictures of that nature), then asking if Lester or Will would be willing to provide pictures of their own would be a better bet than a picture from me.
Let me repeat that... You are lying, Dennis. I am not dumb enough to fall for this BS, either. You did not "fine tune" your spam filter. Also, the only reason I speak of mail organs (intentional misspelling) is because YOU keep bringing it up (and lying about what I write). There is still no chance at all that I will ever send you the explicit pictures of my package that you strongly desire. You need to give up on that one. Perhaps Will or Lester would be willing to send you such a picture? I don't know if they swing that way, but it couldn't hurt to ask. I mean, everyone already knows you want such a picture (or pictures) from me, so they already know that you're a pervert. I'm sure they would not be surprised at all to receive such a request directed at them... as opposed to directed at me. I say Dennis should go for it. He may find his wildest dreams fulfilled. I've never bragged about my equipment, size-wise. So, that Dennis thinks what I have is so impressive is something that he imagined. But Will or Lester might posses units of substantial size. I have no idea. But I think that if that is what he is looking for (pictures of that nature), then asking if Lester or Will would be willing to provide pictures of their own would be a better bet than a picture from me.
Lower tax rates? The people keeping more of their property...in the interest of not harming the economy? Will, I can be convinced.
It's the way to go now Will. Damn republicans squandered the right time to raise taxes when it made sense. Call it a very late course gamble.
Notice I'm getting tired of the stale packaged box thinking Will?
The only reason that I read this one is because I saw that it was addressed to dmarks. Please, are these the thoughts of a sane individual, I ask you?
...Dennis....organs...explicit pictures of my package...desire....Will or Lester ...pervert... wildest dreams fulfilled...my equipment, ...Dennis....what I have is so impressive...Will or Lester...units of substantial ...Lester or Will...Dennis...organs...package ...desire...my equipment..., ...Will or Lester ...Lester or Will..."
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Will asked: "Please, are these the thoughts of a sane individual, I ask you? "
I dunno, Will. Different strokes for different folks, I guess. If this is his social life on a Friday night, so be it.... not that there's anything wrong with that.
Jesus Christ on roller skates!!!!! WD is either bat shit crazy or he is waiting for the mother ship. That lunatic has gone off the rails.
Her actually sat at his computer and pounded that sucker out. I'm going to have to go with, "bat-shit crazy", myself.
Honestly, Will...you really didn't have to mention WD sitting at his computer pounding something. At this point, it seems they obvious...
One other phenomenon we pre WWII
seniors lived with was the demographic labor shifts:
Manufacturing dropped from 28.3%
to 11% GDP, replaced by the rise
in finance, insurance and real estate, which rose from 10.5% to
21.4% GDP. IMO, a shift from making stuff to selling non-stuff. We wonder why the economy
is weak.
We're still a strong #2 (China is obviously #1) in terms of the world's total manufacturing output and our output is actually 4Xs what it was (adjusted for inflation) after WW2 (the other sectors have grown at an even higher clip and hence the decrease in %). And if you throw in mining and energy (neither of which the left is particularly enamored with), our industrial base is approximately 19%. Not too shabby.......And a reason that a lot of these manufacturing jobs have gone away is automation, a reality that I wouldn't necessarily refer to as a bad thing (the tractor put hundreds of thousands of farmers and farm hands out of a job - does anybody really still think that the world would be better off without the tractor?).
Will: Looking at some recent stats (2011)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_the_United_States
...manufacturing shows as close to $2 trillion a year (adding durable and non-durable). That is nothing to sneeze at.
The US is still making stuff... big time.
"the other sectors have grown at an even higher clip and hence the decrease in %"
Yes. Exactly. Looking at the numbers, I'm not seeing "a shift from making stuff to selling non-stuff. If both sectors have grown, there is clearly no shift.
The "weakest" thing is the argument (if one can call it that)... not made here, thankfully, that American manufacturers are pathetic and fragile and simply cannot complete globally on a level playing field, and need greedy devastating tarrifs and other "protectionism" which only gets workers laid off, causes trade wars, and shifts money from consumers' pockets into the fat coffers of the Federal Government.
Apparently Mr. Sanders is officially off the rails, having now himself confirmed our long held suspisions.
I've actually been hearing of a manufacturing renaissance in the country, dmarks. And can you just begin to imagine what our output would be if we could only learn to train our workers better (that "60 Minutes" piece reported on 3 million unfilled positions, many of them IN manufacturing)?
Confirmed indeed, Les (though what a diatribe, huh?).
I am a skeptic, and for damn good reasons. Many are simply filling unskilled and low semi skilled positions with low compensation and no benefits temps.
Renaissance, huh, I hope your sources are right. Being the skeptic I have become I'm putting a grand on I won't live long enough to see it. Anybody talking the bet can pay my grandson. That's how certain I am that I'm right.
Yeah, his specialty.
Here's a positive story, Les. It doesn't mention it but I believe that it's the massive reserves of affordable natural gas that is fueling this increase - http://uk.reuters.com/article/2012/07/24/uk-usa-manufacturing-onshoring-idUKLNE86N01F20120724
Only idiots fail to contradict themselves three times a day. Epic!
Alan
http://www.industrialzone.com/133006-swagelok-ss-12-hrn-8.html
The above from Alan appears to be some sort of spam involving pipes and shady home repair scams. Not like the carefully handcrafted spam I received from WD in which he was drooling over the idea of receiving naked photos of Noam Chomsky. But... a form of spam, nonetheless.
The above comment, in a response to an unpublished comment from WD in which he first raises the subject of nude Chomsky photos, elicited thousands of words of many comments which I briefly scanned and found the typical repeated name dropping of Will and "Lester", but now numerous prurient sexualized references to Noam Chomsky added to the mix. I would have never imagined that my birthday post for Chomsky would elicit numerous comments about his genitalia. One can only imagine what will happen on Trotsky's birthday...
A celebration of some sort, I'm sure of.
There's some idiocy going on here, I think. And not all of it is Keynesian.
Merry Christmas, Dervish Sanders
The quotations below from Dervish Sanders are a fair paraphrase. If anything, they improve the big steaming piles of word salad. The several long blog comments he sent to me today are far to lengthy to post here.
"...Will needs that Xanax.... I'm still NOT pi$sed at Coach Ditka ...to enrich the plutoXcrats, that is for certain. W#inergram....nobody else (or very few people) remember or care about. PlutoXcrat. ... picture of the Koch brothers with their er#ct w@ngs touching (tip to tip). Perhaps a pic of the an)us of a Koch (so he could envision where he could poke it if the Koch was receptive?...see pictures of my w@ng.... take it up the p00p=shoot ..."
Anyway, I know Dervish Sanders loves any mention or attention given to his angry homoerotic rants. So here is my Christmas present to him. I have read your comments, Dervish Sanders, and am reacting to them. Enjoy the resulting holiday bliss.
And I shudder to think... while visions of sugar-plums dance in childrens' heads this time of year... this is a glimpse at what is always dancing in Dervish Sanders' cranium.
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