Saturday, May 19, 2012
Stand Your Ground, Chumps
We haven't heard much from MSNBC on the Zimmerman/Trayvon Martin case lately. Hm, I wonder if it has anything to do with the recent rush of developments to it; the fact that the police basically admitted at the bail-hearing that they still don't know who started the confrontation, the recent release of photos that show the injuries to the back of George Zimmerman's head, the fact that the FBI experts haven't been able to ascertain whose voice it is screaming for help, the recently released photos of Zimmerman's family that show the fellow to be at least 1/8th black himself (not to mention the fact that he's partly Mestizo, too), the recently released records from Mr. Zimmerman's doctor which verify the broken nose and black eyes, the fact that the autopsy report discloses that Mr. Martin had some cuts on his knuckles, the realization that, far from being some sort of bigot, Mr. Zimmerman actually volunteered his time tutoring disadvantaged black kids, the recent revelation that Trayvon Martin's own father purportedly told the police that those screams on the tape were NOT those of his son, etc.. I mean, it's certainly gotta be something here, folks, 'cause back when it looked like this Zimmerman fellow was a drooling at the mouth, knuckle-dragging racist who simply couldn't wait to slaughter this poor black kid whose only crime was having a frigging sugar-buzz, they were handsomely all over the sucker. Big time.
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Will,are you suggesting MSNBC would race bait a story? Are you saying they would jump to an unfound conclusion just to play a race card? Are you also suggesting Al Sharpton and The Rev.Jackson would play the race card to pick a couple 20's off the ground?
Will,if you are even remotely suggesting those things....shame on you.
They were like a kitten with a ball of yarn when the narrative suited 'em - that much is way true.
Will, what you're asserting is actually way false. MSNBC is still talking about the case.
Also, expressing outrage concerning a lack of justice for a murder victim is "like a kitten with a ball of yarn with the narrative suited 'em"?!
Shame on you indeed. Although, unlike Rusty I mean that seriously.
Your claiming of there being a "murder victim" absent knowing all the facts is quite unfortunate, wd.
A gunshot wound isn't natural causes.
wd - As your mind is made up, lacking ALL the facts I might add as nobody has ALL the facts at this point... one can only conclude you are in favor of additional vigilante justice.
Or are you just being coy?
"Rational" Nation: ...one can only conclude you are in favor of additional vigilante justice.
Yes, ONE can only conclude that. That one being you. I can have the opinion that what happened was murder, and believe there should be a trial. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Also, notice how Will ignored my the entire point of my comment (instead focusing in on my use of the word "murder"). The POINT I was making was that the police failed to do their job until pressure from outside sources (like MSNBC) forced the arrest.
Seeking justice for Trayvon is what Will refers to as MSNBC acting "like a kitten with a ball of yarn when the narrative suited 'em".
This statement from Will is what I find "quite unfortunate".
MSNBC is still covering the story. Although not as much as when the story broke (and the police weren't doing their job) because now is the time for justice to run it's course.
And I disagree that Will's evidence proves Zimmerman was "far from being some sort of bigot". First of all, I wasn't able to verify his claim that Zimmerman "volunteered his time tutoring disadvantaged black kids", and second, so what if he did? Zimmerman's racism could be subconscious... and he could be in denial regarding it. I believe this is the nature of most racism.
wd - As your mind is made up, lacking ALL the facts I might add as nobody has ALL the facts at this point...
Still wondering if you're mind is made up.
You say now is the time for justice to be served.
How would you define justice... in this specific case and what results will satisfy you?
wd, a) murder is a legal term that needs to be adjudicated in a court of law. The man is innocent until proven guilty.......b) My point was that, when this looked like a slam-dunk "white America is a terrible racist place and this just flat-out proves it" scenario, those miserable douche-bags were all the frig over it and now, NOW, now that it looks like an exceedingly more ambiguous story, eh, not so much. And that whole "they're simply letting wheels of justice take their course" line is hysterical. You don't remember the other crimes of the century? If there are ratings to be had (and obviously if it doesn't go against your narrative), THEY (the media) WILL COVER IT.......c) Mr. Zimmerman has to prove that he isn't a racist?......d) And how do you know that the police didn't do their job? With all of the evidence that's been coming out lately, one could seriously argue that a Murder 2 charge is way, way over the top (this prosecutor has a history of overcharging, btw - she once brought a murder indictment to a 12 year-old kid who pushed his toddler brother into a book case - nice, huh?).
Les, suffice it to say that wd would never, ever be allowed on this or any other jury.
Will: ...when this looked like a slam-dunk "white America is a terrible racist place and this just flat-out proves it" scenario, those miserable douche-bags were all the frig over it and now...
I don't agree with your take on the story and how the "miserable douche-bags" covered it AT ALL. I heard the tape... it absolutely sounded like he used a racial slur.
They covered the story and, IMO, did a good job of it. The Liberal pundit shows played a big role in applying the pressure that was needed to get the police to do their job. Now we need to wait and let justice run it's course.
New developments ARE still being covered. Your claims to the contrary are flat-out wrong. No douche-bags here, except on the Right (Hannity & Rivera, to name two). I give the Liberal pundits who covered this story a big thumbs up. They did (and continue) to do a good job.
Will: With all of the evidence that's been coming out lately, one could seriously argue that a Murder 2 charge is way, way over the top...
Huh? What "evidence"? Certainly you can't be referring to the evidence that indicates Trayvon fought back against his murderer -- because that would be ridiculous -- to suggest Zimmerman is innocent because his victim fought for his life.
You heard what you wanted to hear and even the police said that they still don't know who started the confrontation.......Oh, and there were grass stains on the back of Mr. Zimmerman's jacket. I forgot about that one.
And you better prepare yourself. There is no way that a jury is going to come back with a murder 2 conviction. Hopefully, there won't be any riots but if there are you can totally blame MSNBC and a prosecutor who caved to pressure to make a name for herself by significantly overcharging.
Pre-assigning blame if there are riots for an innocent ruling (onw you see coming) is completely idiotic.
As for your "no way" pronouncement, all I can say is I don't know. Certainly I think it' possible. As I pointed out previously, Joe Horn was let off the hook for two murders (although that was Texas, not Florida)... so I don't need to "prepare myself".
And I did not hear what I wanted to hear. I listened to the tape and believe my own ears.
Will: ...they still don't know who started the confrontation.
Zimmerman started it by following/profiling Martin.
Well he has shown before in discussions of international criminal court issues that justice does not matter to him. The facts do not matter to him. The careful opinions of the actual authorities do not matter to him. Only his false claims, knee-jerk reaction, and amateur armchair attorney proclamations have any weight in his world. Watch him ignore any trial results too. He is a law unto himself. He might even call for the murder of Zimmerman, like he has in his spittle-flecked incohrent rants about George W Bush.
None of what dmarks said about me is true.
a) You have ZERO evidence that Zimmerman engaged in any profiling. The police ASKED him what race Martin was and he said (hesitating first) "he looks black". b) It isn't a crime to get out of a vehicle and walk. That isn't what we (sane people) mean by an initiation. The real question is who started the physical confrontation and the answer to that is that the cops apparently don't even know. c) CNN's own audio experts (not to mention, the FBI) listened to that same tape and concluded that what Zimmerman said WASN'T a racial slur. CNN and the FBI or wd? Hm, let me see....
"CNN and the FBI or wd? Hm, let me see.."
It's like ICC, UN, United States Supreme Court... or WD?" Same old story.
Someone has delusions here. He likes to accuse people of crimes despite a complete lack of evidence, and even in situations where the actual authorities... the qualified people "in the know" ...say "No way".
Will: CNN and the FBI or wd?
You are a weasley liar Will. You ALWAYS describe these situations as me by my lonesome versus knowledgeable authorities. It is not just me who heard Zimmerman use a racial slur on that tape, and you damn well know it.
Regarding the FBI saying Zimmerman didn't use a racial slur... I haven't heard that. Why not give a link?
dmarks: Someone has delusions here. He likes to accuse people of crimes despite a complete lack of evidence, and even in situations where the actual authorities... the qualified people "in the know" ...say "No way".
The "actual authorities" arrested Zimmerman and are going to conduct a trial. Clearly they believe there is enough evidence to get a conviction and are NOT saying "no way".
If you are so misinformed that you aren't aware of these facts you shouldn't be participating in this discussion.
Will: You have ZERO evidence that Zimmerman engaged in any profiling. The police ASKED him what race Martin was and he said (hesitating first) "he looks black".
I most certainly do have evidence that Zimmerman profiled Martin, and that evidence is Zimmerman's own words...
Zimmerman: [referring to Martin] ...there's a real suspicious guy... This guy looks like he's up to no good, or he's on drugs or something.
He profiled Martin as looking suspicious. For all Zimmerman knew Martin had every right to be there (which he did).
You meant RACIAL profiling and you know it. There is ZERO evidence that Mr. Zimmerman racially profiled this Martin Kid, period. And everybody examined the fucking tape and NOBODY concluded definitively what you did. NOBODY ('cause if in fact they did, they'd also be charging the fellow with a hate-crime AND THEY AREN'T - duh).
Will: You meant RACIAL profiling and you know it.
No, although I think it's very possible. I think he may have hesitated and said "I THINK he looks black" because he didn't want to sound racist.
Will: There is ZERO evidence that Mr. Zimmerman racially profiled this Martin Kid...
His use of the racial slur.
Will: And everybody examined the fucking tape and NOBODY concluded...
Everybody? I don't believe it. So far I'm only aware of CNN claiming that "enhancing" the audio removed the "c" sound and replaced it with a "p" sound.
The FBI, the last I heard, is investigating this as a possible hate crime. I'm not believing your claim that FBI audio experts concluded Zimmerman didn't use the racial slur.... not until you provide some proof (which I asked you for, but you failed to provide).
Also, witnesses change accounts, which could hurt Zimmerman. Perhaps you should prepare yourself.
The CNN audio experts concluded that he DID NOT use a racial slur and I'll go with that over your guilty until proven innocent policy. And if the FBI had concluded that he had used a racial slur, the hate-crime charges would have already been made AND THEY HAVEN'T......."He hesitated to make it sound like he wasn't racist." LOL Where do you come up with the paranoid bullshit?
And Zimmerman is 1/8th black himself (in other words, he's 4X more black than Elizabeth Warren is Native-American), and part Mestizo.
So what if he's 1/8 black? That means it's impossible for him to be racist? He's also part White.
I don't care what CNN concluded. And, as far as I know, CNN only used ONE audio expert.
As far as the "hate crime charges would have already been made"... PROVE IT. The last I heard they were investigating this as a hate crime, and I'll continue to believe they are until I hear otherwise.
The wheels of justice move very slowly. It will most likely be quite some time before this thing is concluded.
But you've declared him innocent and set him free already.
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