Tuesday, September 1, 2009
The Arab League's 1946 Definition of the Term, Arab
"An Arab is a person whose language is Arabic, who lives in an Arabic speaking country, and who is in sympathy with the aspirations of the Arabic speaking peoples.".................................................................................According to this framework, anyway, the genealogical aspect (as opposed to the linguistic and political components) is no longer considered significant. This, combined with the fact that the Palestinians themselves refer to themselves as Arab, is probably an indication that they are. Now, granted, some of the people who now refer to themselves as Palestinians (a term that was rarely used prior to 1920 - mainly because of its Jewish and Christian connotation) may in fact have a centuries old association with the area (predating the initial/2nd century spread of Arab culture into what we now call the "Middle East") , and in that sense may be seen as only fitting 2/3 of that older definition of Arab. But it is in fact the OLDER definition.................................................................................As to the argument that these indigenous "Palestinians" predated the Jews of the region, 2 two points. 1) The Jewish diaspora occurred as far back 800 B.C.. I don't know, folks, that was pretty darn early, too. And 2) That part of Palestine which is now Israel (especially the part that was offered by the Peel Commission in 1937) was basically swamp land/essentially uninhabited prior to the Jews building it up.....................................................................................Look, folks, I'm not saying that there shouldn't ever be a two state solution. In fact, I'm saying that there HAS TO BE. But it has to be accepted by both sides. The fact that the Arabs not only rejected the Peel Commission offer but subsequently contemplated a second holocaust - those to me are frightening components. I'm sorry but they are.
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33 comments:
Dude this is the second time you've split this conversation into a new topic thread.
I've had enough of your insanity.
I've had enough of dealing with you and your narrow mindedness in "conversation".
So long Will, I won't be back.
It was too long for a comment. So I made it into a post. P.S. Glad to see you've finally overcome your propensity to name-call/attack. Congrats!
So Will, is this only the second or is it the third time 1138 has left for good?
I also get a real kick out of narrow minded people calling others narrow minded because they don't think exactly as the other believes they should.
Actually, Volt, I'm a little disappointed here. Up until this last debate, he'd been extremely civil with me. But, yeah, he clearly doesn't like to be disagreed with - especially on the Middle East.
Hey Will,
Have you seen the new "I pledge" video?
Very Cringe worthy...
Just posted it a few minutes ago.
Typical me. I was focused more on Courteney Cox, Demi Moore, and Lucy Liu that the actual message. LOL Seriously, though, I do agree with (and do) some of the pledges. But, yes, when they threw the Obama plug in at the end, that clearly was a little too much.
I agree as well with most of the message. It was the "I pledge to be a servant to the president" part that I find fault with.
After all, as a public servant he's SUPPOSED to be OUR servant not the other way around.
Secondly, the hypocrisy. Where were these people when Bush was president?
Were these not noble things to pledge then too? And can you imagine the uproar if some had pledged to be servants of Bush?
Or imagine the indoctrination O's giving to the kiddies in school next week. How would such a message have been received with W as prez?
Courteney Cox? Demi Moore?
Where?????
Hey, Vig, I see that it's not just foreign policy we agree on. LOL
Hollywodd is 90% Democratic, Volt. The fawning and double-standards surprise me not.
As for you, Clif, I really don't see all that many people defending Bush 2. In fact, I vividly remember Volt saying that he disagreed with 1/2 of what Bush did, and on the half that he did agree with, he didn't like his execution. Do you remember saying that, Volt? Hell, at the end, even Ann Coulter was saying that she wanted Bush to just "go away".
Yeah Will I remember.
But according to the libs if you supported even a single iota of his policies you were a total supporter.
My personal opinion is that after a decade or two Bush will go down in history as an average president.
I do think he'll get high marks for his defense of America though.
However he did start us down the path that Obama has doubled down on since. That thing about "tossing out free market policies to save the free market" was some kind of bullshit.
Or defended him against Nazi comparisons. That was my unpardonable sin.
"It was too long for a comment."
Purely patently false.
You have shown a remarkable inability to follow comments through threads in the past - yet you disrespect the conversation and the participants bt splitting it twice to make it difficult for anyone to understand the conversation behind your dramatic new posts, where you move the goal posts in the conversation.
The middle east and near east are serious issues. Israel and Ireland have much in common.
Volt Piss off, you've got nothing of value to add to conversations.
Once before, but counting isn't in your skill set. Will slightly ingenuous replies and your "brilliant" comments turned up in my inbox or I wouldn't be here now.
There was no reason not to give honest debate with "take no prisoners" another chance after giving it a cool off. There isn't now, because if he looses ground he just moves the conversation.
I've got better places to waste my time.
Navy not Air Force Will, even McCain has said he finds the error offensive, Vietnam made the same lame mistake you did on a plaque by the lake.
Naval Aviator Captain John McCain said it offended him on the Tonight Show. It offended BOTH of us.
Something like your county jail guard time.
Someday you might learn YOU like everyone else on earth can be wrong.
Have fun in your little echo chamber here.
Very odd. You said that they (the Palestinians) weren't Arabs, despite the fact that they themselves call themselves Arabs, and despite the fact that the Arab League has dropped the geneological component of the definition. It seems as if you were the one losing ground. McCain? The Navy-Air Force thing AGAIN? I ackowledged that mistake immediately. Wow. You seem to have some issues here. P.S. Being that it's my blog, I'll start a new thread whenever I want to. Try to be a little more adaptive, no?
It was a state correctional institution, not a county jail. Me, though, I'm not offended.
1138 said...
Never had any intention of doing so I just didn't like you smearing my branch of the service. It's bad enough that the current President lies about having served in the Air Force.
August 16, 2008 7:42 PM
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
I didn't think I was smearing ANY branch of the service. You must be on some sort of disability, right?
August 16, 2008 10:09 PM
Basically my issues are with YOU.
If you have issues with me, then don't deal with me. You just seemed kind of like a wack-job, that's all. And the fact that you're dredging things up from over a year ago seems to indicate that I may be on to something after all.
"I may be on to something after all."
No my guess your on something, not onto something.
One of the links I gave you had discussion of non Arab Palestinians... you missed it but they exist and have for a long time.
The fact that some Arabs are Palestinians and some Palestinians are Arabs does not make all Palestinians, Arabs.
For that matter if you want to start getting technical and look at the history of the Israeli Jews you could call them Arabs but we don't and should the other residents of Palestine with genetic ties to the land.
Saying the current Palestinians have no connection with those non Jews of Palestine/Israel past is refuted by the genetic evidence.
Palestinian by ties to the land.
Arabs by modern intonation, not as in being false Palestinians.
I am a one state guy because I believe the United States was created to separate itself from a theistic state and create the first real democracy run by the people and not Gods chosen.
"the Arab League ITSELF has dropped the geneological part of what it means to be Arab."
And what I'm talking about is Palastinian NOT Arab.
"you into the same camp as Gadaffi and Arafat. ... Fire up the ovens,"
Shame on you, seriously, you know what you've just done here.
Single state with proportional balance CHRISTIAN, JEW, MUSLIM.
The Jewish population of the state is from all over the world, there's no reason the Palestinian component is unacceptable from nearby states.
Your Nazi reference does not apply and actually what intended to propose was a new home for the United Nations, in Jerusalem (guess who named that city... it wasn't the Jews or Arabs) and a nation with a direction that is exact reverse image of what the footing has been, welcoming of all peoples.
Trust me, you don't want to be a Christian in Israel these days.
I have to agree with 1138 on this one Will. There IS a one state solution.
Regarding the palestinians, although there has never actually been a country called "Palestine" the vast majority of territory known as palestine lies in Jordan.
They should give it back.
Ok Pal,
"100,000 Arabs migrated to Palestine"
The Palestinian Diaspora before the League of Nations mandate far exceeded that number.
Look can we put the word ARAB away?
This is an issue about Palestinians and Israeli's.
Right this minute Jordan is stripping Palestinian-Jordanian of their Jordanian citizenship.
In almost every country Palestinians, heck I don't know of any exceptions... any where Palestinians live in sizable numbers - they are refugees, hated and unwanted.
Would so and so have such and such and don't I think the troll under the bridge could have had children that didn't charge for crossings - - - or something equally silly.
I can't be held responsible for slavery and you can't hold everyone with Arab connections liable for the words and actions of Muffman when the USofA itself turned away a ship load of German Jewish refugees.
I don't pretend the Arab community is angelic, but neither are the Satan spawn as you would make them out to be.
"the vast majority of territory known as palestine lies in Jordan.
They should give it back."
a) Depends on what maps you use, when they were made and who made them.
b) If Trans-Jordan has to give anything back then all partys should return to prior status.
Look my basic point is and was that rights should be even haded when Uncle Sam puts our money, policy and human treasure out there.
Bin Laden never mentioned the Palestinians until after Sept 11th 2001, when he wanted to muddy the waters with them.
Israel became a serious target of Iraq for which they bought missiles AFTER Israel launched a strike against Iraq.
The mess is a mess, but demonizing either group - even in casual conversation is going to hurt, not heal.
Welcome to the discussion, Volt. It looks like you and 1138 might have a tad amount of trouble coming to an agreement here. LOL I am definitely the "moderate" in this discussion.
You're right, though, Volt. There never was a country called Palestine. And, guess what, had there NEVER been a Jewish presence there after the war, that little fact would have probably remained. Syria has long considered that region to be theirs and theirs alone. To think that they wouldn't have tried to swallow it up is extremely naive. Add to that the fact that that probably would have been just fine with the Palestinians. Their goal has never really been to have a state per se - only to rid that region of the Jews.
"Their goal has never really been to have a state per se - only to rid that region of the Jews."
Bunk
An inscription of Ramesses II relates in the 8th year of his reign (which is dated c. 1176 BC):
"No land could stand before their arms, from Hatti, Qode, Carchemish, Arzawa and Alasiya on, being cut off at one time. A camp was set up in one place in Amurru. They desolated its people, and its land was like that which has never come into being. They were coming toward Egypt, while the flame was prepared before them. Their confederation was the Peleset, Tjeker, Shekelesh, Denyen, and Weshesh, lands united. They laid their hands upon the land as far as the circuit of the earth, their hearts confident and trusting: 'Our plans will succeeded!'
Medinet Habu Inscription
Peleset is Palistine
It's not bunk. Every time they're offered a state, they refuse it - including in 1937 when they were offered the most generous deal possible. And you don't think they want to drive the jews from the region? Get a hold of one of Arafat's speeches in Arabic. That'll make you see the light.
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