Tuesday, March 10, 2009
Napalm Pom-Poms
I want it to made perfectly clear, folks. I didn't even like it a little bit, that recent comment that Limbaugh made about Ted Kennedy; "They're going to have to call the health care bill the Ted Kennedy Memorial Health Care Bill." I personally thought it was tasteless and, yes, I also think that maybe this is the one instance where Limbaugh SHOULD apologize.......................................................Of course, having said this, though, anybody who thinks that comments such as these are strictly the tactics of the right, it might not be a bad idea for them to re-examine that, too. Take, for instance, this blogger fellow named Clif. The dude practically did a somersault in celebration when conservative commentator Paul Wyrek passed away. Yeah, that's right, folks. He was actually happy when the fellow died. To this frigging day it still kind of creeps me out in fact..............................................................And let us not forget the Mikester, folks. John McCain, right. The poor guy almost gets blown to smithereens over the skies of Vietnam. Almost dead, he proceeds to get captured and tortured for the better part of six years. A courageous and tragic story (the poor bastard still can't lift his arms over his head) - this, according to most folks. Not to the Mikester, though. The only thing that he derives from the story-line is the fact that John McCain flat-out "lost" another plane. A frigging plane he worries about! Really frigging nice, huh?...........................................................Bottom-line, folks. There is more than enough nastiness to go around. And, yes, so, too, me-buckos, those to the left of that 50 yard stripe - rest assured that they be contributing.
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124 comments:
Will,
Why does this surprise you?
Why are you obsessing so much over a couple of bloggers in Lydia's blog, that you're now posting articles about them on the internet?
Don't you find that just a little bit obsessive compulsive?
You accuse me of hanging out in Lydia's blog too much yet here you are dedicating articles on your website to criticizing some bloggers in another site.
Its a pretty underhanded way to use a blog if you asked me, to bash and criticize some one who can't defend themselves on the article page. Only your voice is heard there. Which is obviously why you did it.
You don't feel just the least bit small for doing that?
And Frank. You've the audacity to come into Lydia's blog acting like a friend to Clif, and then not only condone apparently but encourage this sort of nonsense?
Hell Bart, Will's BFF did exactly the same thingy, right after he started the pink pajama circle jerk romper room, remember?
Will is just emulating his BFF
You guys are more than free to comment. Bartlebee, though, my point - Clif actually being happy that a guy dies. And my overall point - that being that both sides can be virulent at times.
Must be true.
We got it straight from the concern trolls mouth.
Again with the labels.
Always look for, that Union label...
Concern trolls have a union? Now THAT is awesome. How can I be one of the bosses?
You'll have to talk to your rep.
Will LIES as usual;
MY complete comment;
clif said...
Paul M. Weyrich dead at age 66 …….
….. he died 65 years too late.
Hope he rots in hell
Why did I say that?
this video explains it very well
because he wanted to work to deny the RIGHT to vote to people he disagreed with politically, about as partisan as you can get,
so his corrupt ideology could win;
Just like Joesph Stalin did,
Just like Saddam Hussein did,
Just like Fidel Castro did.
Just like Kim il Jung in Korea just did;
destroying the democracy so he could win is PISSING on the grave of every United States Soldier, Sailor, Airman or Marine who gave their lives defending this great country and the Constitution which is the foundation of it;
Will gets his panties in a bunch because that wanna be tinfoil dictator is gone and no longer trying to DENY the right to vote to people JUST so he could win, and I am GLAD he can no longer destroy the democracy so many have died defending?????????
The democracy I volunteered to defend against criminals like him?
Well will I guess I will never understand what YOU think was so special about his demanding the republican party DENY the basic right to vote to people they just disagreed politically with LIKE the communists in Russia we fought a 50 year cold war against,
totalitarians in Cuba,
Nazi Germany,
Imperial Japan,
Communist China,
Iraq and elsewhere around the planet do to maintain their UNDEMOCRATIC hold on power;
I guess my question would be
Will why do you love him MORE then the democracy people like ME volunteered to defend against all enemies foreign and domestic,
and Paul Weyrich WAS a domestic enemy of the United States Constitution ...... just like George W Bush was a political hack who benefited from Weyrich's anti-American style of political suppression.
No cartwheels,
just ONE simple statement about an unamerican traitor to the Constitution being gone ..... and will gets his panties in a bunch cause I dislike anti-american traitors to the United states constitution, like Paul Weyrich?
wanna tell some more LIES will?
You're a nut, Clif. You could justify pretty much anything. FDR gratuitously and unneccessarily carpet-bombed Tokyo, killing thousands of women and children. And his moronically contrived Agriculture Adjustment Administration did such beneficent things as burning domestic oats and corn while simultaneously importing THESE VERY SAME CROPS! All of these guys are a mixed bag, Clif, and, just to let you know, there isn't such a thing as hell. It's a fairy tale they told you when you were a kid.
You could justify pretty much anything.
You and Voltron usually try to do just that.
Paul Weyrich CALLED for denying United States citizens the right to vote, the most basic right we have as citizens, to decide who makes and enforces our laws,
He wanted to do that to win partisan elections, because he ADMITTED if everyone voted, his extreme version of how this country should be run wasn't going to win,
...... and YOU still want to defend him?
Pathetic will, just plain pathetic.
I'm not defending anything. Weyrich was a controversial conservative commentator. There are a lot of those (a lot of liberal ones, too). Are we going to take a dump on every one of them the very second they die? He tried to get wiccans thrown out of the military. I know that much. What are these other things you're talking about? And did he really have the power to execute them? Perspective, Clif. Maybe develope a little.
And it's not like he carpet-bombed Tokyo or anything. Mixed bags, Clif. We're all mixed bags.
Shiite fur brains he gave a speech advocating republicans deny the right to vote for people who politically disagreed with them
the exact thing Kathleen Harris did in Florida in 2000 where she illegally denied 55,000 voters their right to vote in minority and heavily democratic areas to help George W Bush STEAL the state by 276 votes
yes perspective.
Like republicans still do down south with various schemes like caging and making sure fewer individual voting machines show up inner cities and precincts that are heavily minority to slow down the process and make sure less minorities can vote.
yes perspective
the germ of that treasonous idea came from that traitor
defend his sorry ass all ya want you fraud.
Weyrich was reich-wing before it was kool;
He predates Reagan's rise.
He helped form the racist southern strategy of blocking minority votes in states where significant minorities lives to help the republicans gain power.
He gave a speech? And a lot of Democrats want to open the borders to swell their ranks, no matter how much it bankrupts the frigging nation, the border states especially. There's fuzzy thinking on both sides, Clif. Just take a look in the mirror, me-bucko. And, again, I'm not defending anybody. I'm just saying that in a civilized society, we let the body cool first. P.S. Are you hoping that he suffered, too? Or was his demise alone enough to satisfy you?
And Gore wanted to cherry-pick districts, rather than do a state-wide recount. They all act out of self-interest, Clif. Wake up!
Show me the speech, Clif. I'd like to read his actual words. No offense, but your tendency is to put a slanted interpretation on things.
Ummmm Will the speech was in the link above son.
Paul Weyrich - "I don't want everybody to vote" (Goo Goo)
I see you never check the links we provide since you have already made your very rigid mind up.
He just didn't give a speech, he actively helped the right wing of the Republican Party create the dishonest machinery of voter suppression people like Harris in 2000 and Blackwell in 2004 used to deny United sates citizens from exercising the most basic right of a citizen, the right to freely choose their own leaders.
Things like;
Photo ID laws
The Republican Party has passed photo ID laws in seven states, including Indiana and Georgia. This disproportionately affects minority and elder voters who do not have driver's licenses and lean towards voting Democratic. For example, about 12 retired nuns in South Bend, Indiana, were barred from voting in Indiana's 2008 Democratic primary election because they lacked photo IDs required under a state law which the Indiana Supreme Court upheld in April 2008. John Borkowski, a South Bend lawyer volunteering as an election watchdog for the Lawyers Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, said, "This law was passed supposedly to prevent and deter voter fraud, even though there was no real record of serious voter fraud in Indiana."
Purging voter rolls
In 2008, more than 50,000 registered Georgia voters were purged from voter rolls because of a computer mismatch in their personal identification information. At least 4,500 of those people must prove their citizenship to regain their right to vote. The state may make the burden impossible to meet. For example, the state of Georgia gave college senior Kyla Berry one week to prove her citizenship in a letter dated October 2, 2008. Unfortunately, the letter was postmarked October 9, 2008. However, Berry is a U.S. citizen, born in Boston, Massachusetts with a passport and a birth certificate to prove it. Wendy Weiser, an elections expert with New York University's Brennan Center for Justice said, "What most people don't know is that every year, elections officials strike millions of names from the voter rolls using processes that are secret, prone to error and vulnerable to manipulation."
Just in case ya didn’t know will, Georgia has a republican governor and Sec of State.
They were just following in the footsteps of Katherine Harris who did the very same thing in 2000 in Florida;
Florida Central Voter File
Between May 1999 and Election Day 2000, two Florida secretaries of state, Sandra Mortham and Katherine Harris, distributed the scrub lists produced by the cleansing process to counties and ordered the 57,700 people identified as "ex-felons" to be removed from voter rolls. Together the lists comprised nearly 1% of Florida's electorate and nearly 3% of its African-American voters.
In Florida during the 2000 presidential election, some non-felons were banned due to record-keeping errors and not warned of their disqualification before they no longer had the right to contest it.
In other words, many people on the list were NOT even a felon, they just shared a name with someone from ANOTHER state who was a felon, or some people had their right to vote reinstated before she illegally stole that right.
2002 New Hampshire Senate election phone jamming scandal
In the 2002 New Hampshire Senate election phone jamming scandal, Republican officials attempted to reduce the number of Democratic voters by paying professional telemarketers in Idaho to make repeated hang-up calls to block Democrats' ride-to-the-polls phone lines on election day.
2004 presidential election
Allegations surfaced in several states that the group called Voters Outreach of America had collected and submitted Republican voter registration forms while inappropriately disposing of Democratic registration forms.
What the shit stack said to do in 1980, prevent American citizens who might not vote for you from voting at all;
Michigan Republican state legislator John Pappageorge was quoted as saying, "If we do not suppress the Detroit vote, we're going to have a tough time in this election."
2006 Virginia Senate election
During the United States Senate election in Virginia, 2006, Secretary of the Virginia State Board of Elections Jean Jensen concluded that the incidents of voter suppression appeared widespread and deliberate. Documented incidents of voter suppression include:
* Democratic voters receiving calls incorrectly informing them voting will lead to arrest.
* Widespread calls fraudulently claiming to be "Webb Volunteers," falsely telling voters their voting location had changed.
* Fliers paid for by the Republican Party, stating "SKIP THIS ELECTION" was allegedly an attempt to suppress African-American turnout.
A particularly reprehensibly form of voter suppression practiced by republicans acting out the designs of voter denial for opponents of republican candidates;
Caging
Which under the National Voting Rights Act of 1993 (NVRA) should be illegal, but the Bush DOJ never enforced the law as usual.
Pre Election Day Operations New Registration Mailing
At whatever point registration in the state closes, a first class mailing should be sent to all new registrants as well as purged/inactive voters. This mailing should welcome the recipient to the voter rolls. It is important that a return address is clearly identifiable. Any mail returned as undeliverable for any reason, should be used to generate a list of problematic registrations. Poll watchers should have this list and be prepared to challenge anyone from this list attempting to vote.
* Shortly before the 2004 election, Palast also obtained a caging list for Jacksonville, Florida, which contained a high number of African Americans and registered Democrats. The caging list was attached to an email which a Florida Republican party official was sending to RNC headquarters official Tim Griffin.
Who BTW worked directly for Karl; Rove
* The Republican National Committee sent letters to predominately urban minority areas in Ohio. When 35,000 letters were returned as undeliverable, the party employed poll watchers to challenge the voters. Voting rights groups challenged the RNC in a case that went to the Supreme Court, but the RNC was not stopped from challenging those voters. Similarly, the RNC sent out 130,000 letters in Philadelphia hoping to cage voters there. Philadelphia is a city with a majority African American population that votes heavily Democratic. The Republicans were attempting to cage votes by people who were likely to vote for the Democratic candidates.
* In the Ohio court challenge, the RNC submitted a caging list that targeted urban and African-American areas in and around Cleveland.
* Journalists found evidence that the Republican National Committee (RNC) attempted to use caging to suppress votes in five states in the 2004 US presidential election. For example, in New Jersey RNC officials used caging lists to challenge absentee ballots and absentee ballot requests.
The reason I find caging particularly reprehensible, is because caging catches anybody who is NOT living at their home of record but registered to vote there.
Caging is designed to go after college students, a block of voters who historically normally do not vote republican,
BUT it catches another subset of the voting public in similar circumstances as to living at their home of record;
DEPLOYED MILIARY MEMBERS especially ones deployed to combat zones where mail sometimes takes upwards of six weeks to arrive and six weeks to be returned.
When the republicans cage a heavily democratic leaning district, they also deny the right to vote to the very people who are actively defending that very right.
During the Bush administration they even allowed voting suppression activist like Hans von Spakovsky and Bradley Schlozman to actively work within the federal government to work the anti-american ideas of Weyrich into using federal power to suppress the rights of American citizens to vote.
Now will I know this post is long and you will get your partisan panties all in a bunch because of the length and the numerous ACTS referenced but the amount of republican based voter suppression, something Weyrich helped create and foster to help his extreme ideology to attack the country is a historical fact so he is a traitor to the US Constitution.
And I have no quarter to give to traitors, whether they use bombs like Timmy McVeigh did, or the machinery of the Republican Party to subvert the constitution.
May they both rot in hell.
Defend traitors all YOU want will, I took an oath to defend the constitution against all enemies foreign and DOMESTIC. Paul Weyrich was a domestic traitor who actively worked to undermine the constitution for pure partisan political gain, something YOU claimed to be totally against.
I guess that is just a ruse also eh will?
Waiting for will's crybaby response it is too long .....like he has done every time when faced with the enormous number of facts like here.
Voltron's also.
He had a different political view than you, Clif. You don't like the right wing. I get it. In that 40 second clip, he said he didn't want everybody to vote. Where was this plan of his to suppress the vote? I'm not sure I want everybody to vote, either, Clif. There are a lot of idiots (ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM) out there who make totally uninformed choices. It wouldn't break my heart if they stayed home. And stop with the straw man bull crap, Clif. I'm not defending anybody. Just underscoring your mean-spirited tenor, that's all.
You haven't responded to FDR's carpet-bombing of Tokyo, Clif. Too painful....or you just haven't come up with a good spin/rinse yet?
I'm not sure I want everybody to vote, either,
Thank you for proving you are a fascist.
I for one want EVERY legal american Citizen entitled to the right to vote to have that right,
you not so much it seems.
Where was this plan of his to suppress the vote?
Damn you are dense son, it is in the numerous links I provided.
and carpet bombing Toyko son, it is called war, we did the same thing to Hamburg and Dresden son.
sucks, but wars were fought like that,
and comparing how we fight wars to how the republicans have worked for decades to suppress the vote of those they disagree with is just insane son, or a very right wing way of seeing the problem.
thanks for showing for all to see how delusional your thinking precesses are.
There are a lot of idiots (ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM) out there who make totally uninformed choices.
So only if they use YOUR criteria, and vote as YOU see fit should they show up to vote?
Interesting way to a see voter suppression son.
Your in good company there;
Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Kim il Jung, Fidel Castro and yes,
I hate to do this to you,
Cause I know how pained you will become when you see it,
but even Adolph Hitler saw things that way.
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
He had a different political view than you, Clif. You don't like the right wing. I get it. In that 40 second clip, he said he didn't want everybody to vote. Where was this plan of his to suppress the vote? I'm not sure I want everybody to vote, either, Clif. There are a lot of idiots (ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM) out there who make totally uninformed choices."
So your "FOR" disenfranchising and surpressing the vote of those "YOU" dont agree with just like fascist dictators like Adolpph Hitler and Saddam Hussein were............Damn Will I never said YOU were like Hitler BEFORE but now its an apt comparison since you AGREE WITH DISENFRANCHISING and SURPRESSING THE VOTE OF THOSE YOU DONT AGREE WITH.
And your right Willy there are ALOT of IDIOTS across the political spectrum that arent very smart or well informed............but I STILL wouldnt deny YOU or Voltron the right to vote.
Next time you spout your flowery crap about freedom and democracy i'll have to bring this post out to show what a hippocritical double talking fool you are.
Mike, when will here tried to say Eisenhower's backing of Alan Dulles denial of democracy in Vietnam or his overthrowing of a democratically government in Iran, was justified. I thought will was just the run of the mill America right or wrong crowd.
Nothing more or less.
But he is really a kool-aid drinker even if he denies it with this latest admission of his desire to deny some the right to vote, simply because he doesn't like their rational or thinking on who to vote for.
They always expose themselves if you ask people long enough, and will just has. He is much further to the right then he claims to be.
You're lying, Clif. I never said that the toppling of the Iranian government and the insertion of the Shah was a good thing. In fact, I'm on the record as being very critical of that decision. You really need to correct that, bro. As for Democracy and Vietnam, Clif, even you said that the initial blocking of elections in that country took place after WW2 - WHEN Harry TRUMAN WAS IN CHARGE!!! Eisenhower was just continuing that containment policy and did so without sending combat troops to do so. And I never said that I was in favor of voter suppression (and neither did Weyrich in that 40 second piece you provided). I just said that I'm not sure I want everybody to vote (not that they should be prevented from voting). You should agree with me in that it was a lot of stupid people who helped elect President Bush.
Clif, even you said that the initial blocking of elections in that country took place after WW2 - WHEN Harry TRUMAN WAS IN CHARGE!!!
Bullshit
pure unadulterated bullshit son;
The Geneva accords which MANDATED the elections were NOT signed until 1954, and the elections Eisenhower ADMITTED he approved being blocked weren't scheduled to happen until 1956 BY the Geneva accords,
I specifically mentioned the Geneva Accords and elections of 1956.
Quit LYING it makes you look like something you clam not to be a R***h-w****r, I'm sure you can fill in the blanks.
The carpet-bombing of Tokyo was a war-crime, Clif (and, yes, so was the carpet-bombing of Dresden, ordered by Churchill). There was no strategic significance to the operation, AT ALL. The only thing it accomplished was the mass killing of thousands and thousands of civilians (mostly women and chidren). Whether it was punitive or done to impress the Russians - either way, a strong case could be made that Roosevelt was guilty of a war-crime. The only thing that saved him was the fact that we won.
You're looking dumber and dumber will
give it up.
These are your own words, Clif. You said that Minh wanted elections right after WW2 and that WE, the U.S. blocked those elections (you were trying to portray the murderous bastard as some sort of Thomas Jefferson or something). When I mentioned to you that the president then was Truman, you immediately got out of Dodge. I'm just repeating what you said, Clif.
I guess the death en masse of Japanese civilians doesn't interest you.
See will I actually believe in a REAL democracy where everyone gets to vote for who they want based on their own ideas and reasons,
Not the voter suppression style of democracy the right wing has pursued here, which totalitarians and dictators the world over have also used to hold their grip on power.
Either you believe and DEFEND a real democracy, or like Iraq under Saddam and North Korea under Kim Il Jung you can claim you have one, but you don't.
and weyrich helped set up the republican voter suppression machine they have used for decades to suppress the voters in districts they know they don't have a majority in, to help candidates win, which would have lost if the suppression efforts hadn't be followed,
Like George W Bush who "won" Florida with 276 votes when Kathrine Harris illegally denied the right to vote to about 55,000 mostly democratic voters.
No you are NOT reposting what I said accurately.
Ho wanted the French out but didn't mention elections UNTIL the Geneva accords son, when the idea of democracy was introduced by the US, however when Alan Dulles and Eisenhower realized that Ho would achieve over 90% of the vote in Vietnam they blocked that vote.
POST a link to my actual words,
YOU can't
Keep LYING and you reveal yourself further.
Clif, I ask you. Name one prominant politician of either party who would have handled that situation differently than Ike.
Why are YOU diverting from What CLIF and YOU actually said to strawman BS Will..........Clif NEVER mentioned bombing the japanese at all.................YOU MENTIONED YOU SUPPORT VOTOR SUPPRESSION.........now your trying to change the subject cause you got busted.
Well mr self righteous moderate it SHOULDNT be about whether politicians think its right or wrong.............it matters if YOU think its wrong politicians agreed to exterminate the Indians and jews and gas their own people or engage in premptive wars of choice based on lies.................they ALSO support voter suppression like YOU and the Right Wing does.
You "SAY" politicians are bad and not to trust them then you use them as examoles and say oh well others would have done the same.............would you say that about Saddam ans Hitler as well will............maybe another dictator would have denied democracy and surpressed votes in Germany just like hitler Ay Will...........but your NOT defending the Voter Suppression of the Right ay Will?
Clif, I ask you. Name one prominant politician of either party who would have handled that situation differently than Ike.
sorry BUT that dodge won't work
If slavery is wrong then any politician who supports it NO matter what reason is still wrong.
f subverting democracy is wrong, there is NO political acceptable reason to subvert democracy here or elsewhere,
keep a diggin' thew hole deeper son.
you're revealing more about how much a moderate you really aren't
Your a little lying worm that takes BOTH sides of an issue when your not TRYING to push Right wing Propaganda to make Eric be your little friend.
sorry But Ike who had seem insurgencies against the governments the Germans tried to force on the indigenous populations of Europe during WW2, should have realized a CIA imposed government was doomed to fail in the end like it did.
thus you're claiming he had NO backbone for democracy when it counted.
and take the bombing tokyo diversion
and shove it son.
that is a pure troll tactic, which is interesting why you feel the need for it on the blog you have
can't defend the statements you make about voter suppression started by Weyrich?
so you need to try to divert the debate?
Wheres Eric to save you Will.............better go ask him how you should respond............you need him to give you your talking points and marching orders and think for you.
Will must have dug himself in so deep wih all his furious spinning he must have remerged in China.........that or up Voltrons ass again.
Help me Volt Help me PLEASE..........LOL
BTW will since I admitted to posting as TOM long ago after you first went apeshit when I posted numerous references as clif)here is a post I did;
see who I claim blocked elections Eisenhower of Truman;
Tom said...
Your quote;
"Despite being under great pressure at home and abroad to help the French in Indochina, he wisely kept us out of that region."
Is not quite as true as you believe,
Interestingly the US Communist Party was outlawed in 1954, the very same year Wallace Buford and James McGovern Jr. became the first American casualties in Vietnam. Their C-119 transport aircraft was shot down by Viet Minh artillery while on mission to drop supplies to the garrison of Dien Bien Phu.
Dwight David Eisenhower's years in office Jan 1953 until Jan 1961, which means that supply mission to the French forces at Dien Bien Phu HAD to have been approved by him.
By the way under his administration the mandated democratic elections of 1956 were blocked.
The Geneva Accords promised elections in 1956 to determine a national government for a united Vietnam. However, the United States and the State of Vietnam refused to sign the document. From his home in France Emperor Bảo Đại appointed Ngô Ðình Diệm as Prime Minister of South Vietnam. With American support, in 1955 Diệm used a referendum to remove the former Emperor and declare himself the president of the Republic of Vietnam.
Also the following military support for France took place during the Eisenhower administration,
*During September 1953, the USS Belleau Wood -renamed Bois Belleau- was lent to France and sent to French Indochina to replace the Arromanches. She was used to support delta defenders in the Halong bay in May 1954.
*The same month the United States delivered additional aircraft using the USS Windham Bay carrier. She would return to Saigon in 1955. On April 18, 1954, during the siege of Dien Bien Phu, the USS Saipan delivered 25 Korean War AU-1 Corsair aircraft to be used by the French Aeronavale to support the bessieged garrison.
*US Air Force assistance (1952-1954)
A 1952 F4U-7 Corsair of the 14.F flotilla who fought at Dien Bien Phu.
A total of 94 F4U-7s were built for the Aeronavale in 1952, with the last of the batch, the final Corsair built, rolled out in December 1952. The F4U-7s were actually purchased by the U.S. Navy and passed on to the Aeronavale through the U.S. Military Assistance Program (MAP). They were supplemented by 25 ex-U.S.MC AU-1s (previously used in the Korean War) and moved from Yokosuka, Japan to Tourane Air Base (Da Nang), Vietnam in April 1954. US Air Force assistance followed in November 1953 when the French commander in Indochina, General Navarre, asked General McCarty, commander of the Combat Cargo Division, for 12 Fairchild C-119 for Operation Castor at Dien Bien Phu.
On March 3, 1954, twelve C-119s of the 483rd Troop Carrier Wing ("Packet Rats") based at Ashiya, Japan, were painted with France's insignia and loaned to France with 24 CIA pilots for short term use. Maintenance was carried out by the US Air Force and airlift operations were commanded by McCarty.
*Central Intelligence Agency covert operations (1954)
France-marked USAF C-119 flown by CIA pilots over Dien Bien Phu in 1954.
Two CIA pilots (CAT) were killed in action during the siege of Dien Bien Phu in 1954. Twenty four CIA pilots supplied the French Union garrison by airlifting paratroopers, ammunition, artillery pieces, tons of barbed wire, medics and other military material. With the reducing DZ areas, night operations and anti-aircraft artillery assaults, many of the "packets" fell into Viet Minh hands.
The 37 CIA pilots completed 682 airdrops under anti-aircraft fire between March 13 and May 6th. The ceasefire began the following day at 5:00 PM under Hanoi-based General Cogny's orders. On February 25, 2005, the French ambassador to the United States, Jean-David Levitte, awarded the seven remaining CIA pilots with the Légion d'honneur.
For more references about the US Military's involvement in Indochina and Vietnam try the Pentagon Papers, as they contain numerous references by the US military itself about what they did there.
Try a little research before making blanket statements which are so easily disproved.
After the period of advising the French, which ended soon after the French defeat at Dien Bien Phu, our direct aid of the new Republic of Vietnam (the southern Vietnamese government under President Diem) came under the direction of three commanders in the Military Assistance and Advisory Group, Vietnam. They were Lt. General Samuel T. Williams, Lieutenant General Lionel C. McGarr, and Major General Charles J. Timmes. These men served, in succession, from May 1954 to February 1962.
You do not create a military command at this level unless your involved with quite a large military undertaking. There are not enough Lt Generals in the US Army to give one to every country on the planet.
P.S. Just so you know, only John Kennedy had a plan to get the US out of Vietnam …. before Nixon's Vietamization policy(cut and run strategy), in 1972 when victory was seen as no longer possible.
So let me see if I have this right will............
1) YOU support Voter disenfranchisement and suppression of those who dont agree with YOU or who YOU think arent "smart enough" to vote.
2) You CLAIM to find it offensive to smear and attack a veteran...............yet when one veteran makes his service record a core part of his candacy YOU attack people posting legitimate verifiable proven facts about that persons competence that are not in any way personal attacks or lies while proceeding to demean and attack personally a disabled veteran who is NOT running for ANY type of office with demeaning disrespectful personal attacks like "get a job" "get of the dole" "my tax dollars shouldnt have to support you'etc............
Why do you ALWAYS actually DO OR SUPPORT that which you pretend to decry................ONLY a hippocrite and a Right winger would SUPPORT voter suppression or disrespecting a disabled veteran Will...............that makes you more than JUST a joke but a dispicable human being.
BTW in that thread you also LIED and claimed Eisenhower "inherited" a mess which was resolved by the geneva accords, which were signed in 1954 when Ike was in power,
It was his blocking of those accords in 1956 which started the insurection,
blocking democracy must be in GOPers DNA.
You should be ashamed of yourself Will i'd say I hope all your readers see how dispicable and pathetic you TRULY ARE...........but thats an oxymoron since you dont really have any readers Will.
BUSTED:
Here is the original post will
It is comment #6
YOU LIED as usual;
clif said...
will: As for theories here, did the French leaving Vietnam cause those frigging bastards to "get along much easier? Come on.
Well you just PROVED you do not know your history very well;
In 1956 Eisenhower PREVENTED elections from occurring all over Vietnam in an effort to reunify the country, and meet the requirements of the Geneva accords of 1954, because;
get this;
Ho Chi Minh would have gotten 90%+ of the vote
Do ya thunk 90% of the people agreeing on a candidate is as you so eloquently put it;
will: frigging bastards to "get along
I wouldn't call them bastards, but would think 90% of a vote is getting along very well;
Only John Foster Dulles and Alan Dulles interference in Vietnam prevented that and started the US into the fiasco which we all call the Vietnam war;
If ya don't believe me son.
READ the Pentagons own history of that foreign policy fiasco, which THEY wrote as it went along;
It is known as the Pentagon Papers, and it very clearly shows Vietnam would have recovered as a society and country quite well from French colonial rule EXCEPT for the US government of Eisenhower through actions of the Dulles brothers blocking it from happening.
And with your characterization of the Vietnamese as bastards I NOW think your a slimy repugnant troll PRETENDING to be progressive, this half assed attempt of a blog not withstanding.
wanna LIED about what I said again?
Mike, I brought up the carpet-bobing of Tokyo early in this thread to show Cliffy, mainly, that all of us, ALL OF US, are a mixed bag....and not these hackneyed pillars of pure evil that his simpleton mind spits forward.
Alan Dulles and John Foster Dulles the same people who helped Richard Nixon get his start in politics after Nixon helped Alan Dulles in Europe cover up some of Dulles Nazi friends crimes so they could slip into the US;
to wit;
Allen Dulles sought out a young Naval Officer that had been put in charge of some captured Nazi documents. If the documents surfaced it would have revealed Dulles as a traitor. In a deal to bury the documents, Dulles agreed to finance the young man’s first political race. This was the beginning of the political career of Richard Nixon.
In 1945 it was Dulles who persuaded a naval officer named Richard Nixon who was assigned to review captured documents of "the Nazi oil cartel, Kontinentale Ol A. G. Konti headed by former Reichsbank officer Karl Blessing," because they incriminated him and his clients as Nazi traitors for having vouched for Karl Blessing.
Funny how the republican crooks and traitors club has decades long ties right will?
You're lying, Mike. I believe in Democracy just as much as you do (and more than Obama, apparently, in that he criticized Bush for allowing the Palestinian elections). I just said that I'd just as soon that the moronic, uninformed people of both parties stay home on election day, NOT THAT THEY BE FORCED TO STAY HOME. Stop mischaracterizing what I said, ball-boy.
I'd like to comment on that Indians/Jews comment of yours, Mike. But it's just too incoherent. Try again when you're sober.
UMMMM
will
about your LIE I said Truman blocked elections?
any comments?
will,
er will,
no comment about the blatant lie you tried to tell here?
no comment?
will?
(crickets)
Clif, you bastard. I can't believe you made me search for this..................................."Well junior you don't know about Ho's request for the US to help him establish a Democracy in Vietnam right after WW2 before the French had been able to reestablish colonial control do you spunky? After the US turned Ho down and helped the French try to reestablish their colony, and Mao beat the western backed Chaing forces in China Ho looked elsewhere for help.".........To which Will responded, "Oh, and who was it who refused to help Ho now? That would have been Truman, huh?" Silence ensued.
December 26th, 2008. "Take a Vote on it, Boys".
Um will
where do I say TRUMAN blocked elections?
Your EXACT quote:
You said that Minh wanted elections right after WW2 and that WE, the U.S. blocked those elections
No where did I say Truman BLOCKED elections son.
which means YOU lied as usual.
Um will can you find the words Truman blocked elections in there?
Like YOU claimed here
I can't
Keep lying son,
it exposes you as you really are.
and NOT as you dishonestly claim son
Where are the words TRUMAN Blocked elections.............STOP LYING WILL!
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
I'd like to comment on that Indians/Jews comment of yours, Mike. But it's just too incoherent. Try again when you're sober."
Translation=I WISH I COULD address that comment but i cant without looking like a hippocritical fool........so i'll just repost it and insult you like snotty little bitch without ACTUALLY addressing a damn thing you actually said.
BTW will the actual thread post is;
Anonymous said...
Well junior you DON'T know about Ho's request for the US to help him establish a democracy in Vietnam right after WW2 before the French had been able to reestablish colonial control do ya spunky?
After the US turned Ho down and helped the French try to reestablish their colony, and Mao beat the western backed Chaing forces in China Ho looked elsewhere for help.
Damn son is all your history right out of high school?
December 27, 2008 11:40 AM
and you claim it was me?
like you keep claiming nicholas was me.
Truman wasn't president "right after WW2"? Are you stooges telling me he was a puppet? Seriously, this is getting pathetic.
You should be ashamed of yourself Will i'd say I hope all your readers see how dispicable and pathetic you TRULY ARE...........but thats an oxymoron since you dont really have any readers Will.
interesting you forgot to post this one;
Anonymous said...
If Eisenhower hadn't blocked the elections the insurgency of 75% of the southern population wouldn't have begun for the CIA to manipulate, claiming an invasion of the country by people who used to live there.
BTW John F Kennedy DID try to deescalate the war in the summer and fall of 1963, but for some reason some people wanted him dead.
December 27, 2008 8:32 AM
specifically accusing Eisenhower of blocking elections.
Um will
the anonymous handle?
Will must have dug himself in so deep wih all his furious spinning he must have remerged in China.........that or up Voltrons ass again.
Help me Volt Help me PLEASE..........LOL
Will must have dug himself in so deep wih all his furious spinning he must have remerged in China.........that or up Voltrons ass again.
Help me Volt Help me PLEASE..........LOL
Mike, reread the comment yourself. It's unintelligible (even more than usual, I'm saying).
Um will, show me the words Truman BLOCKED elections cause the post above it does contain the words Eisenhower BLOCKED elections.
The poster is clearly accusing Eisenhower of blocking elections BUT never states that for Truman.
Looks like Will is TRYING to ASSIGN you a strawman position Clif like ALL Trolls do.........kind of Like WILL Assigned you the position of Nicholas, when Clif couldnt have been that IDIOT because the power was off for days due to a National disaster.
I have always NAMED the person if I want to accuse them of blocking elections or voter suppression.
Yea will why do you accuse only Mike, bart, and me for things others have shown they do?
Seems pretty partisan if ya ask me.
We already know you blamed Ike, Clif. That "right after WW2" quote was new news. Are you actually denying that that quote is yours? And speaking of lies, you continue to say that I said I didn't want people who disagree with me to vote. I IN NOW WAY SAID THAT. I made it clear that these idiots are "ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM". Now THAT is despicable!
Sorry will, but people who BELIEVE in democracy ever ask other citizens NOT to vote because they disagree with their political reason for voting the way they do;
However;
you on the other hand DO it seems.
Son where did the poster say Truman blocked elections LIKE you claimed I did?
The poster CLEARLY stated Ike blocked elections, so they didn't quibble there at all.
can't can ya boy?
You proof fails as badly as it usually does son.
Clif, who was the US president "right after WW2"? You didn't have to say the name, Truman. We all know it was Truman. You probably purposefully avoided using the name, Truman being a Dem and all. You were trying to defend the wretched Ho and ended up implicating Harry. Wow, did you ever step into that one stupidly.
I said NOTHING about "disagreeing with their political reason", ass-hole. That is a disgusting lie. I said ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM. Why are you lying?
Sorry will but your word salads do leave a lot to confusion, however you clearly were calling for people who don't use the rationalizations YOU do to NOT to vote.
people who don't use YOUR rationalizations is asking for people who disagree with you NOT t vote son.
I never said it was about political parties did I?
I have always maintained your words mean your version, not any particular parties version,
damn your kinda dumb ain't ya son?
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
We already know you blamed Ike, Clif. That "right after WW2" quote was new news. Are you actually denying that that quote is yours? And speaking of lies, you continue to say that I said I didn't want people who disagree with me to vote. I IN NOW WAY SAID THAT. I made it clear that these idiots are "ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM". Now THAT is despicable!"
Lets try to decipher this unintelligle gibberish will?
1) Are You saying You flip flopped and changed your mind about disenfranchising those who dont agree with you because its as anti demacratic as it gets
2) OR are you saying your for disenfranchising EVERYONE who disagrees with you regardless of where they stand on the political spectrum?
Maybe YOU can clarify this gibbeerish of yours for us since i'm confused as to what Your actual position REALLY is...............Were you for disenfranchisement before you were against it or are you for disenfranchisement as long as it isnt partisan but rather indiscrimiately towards ANYONE who disagrees with King Will the Magnificent.
sorry but no where does the poster say block elections in the post YOU reference,
the poster explicitly states blocked elections about ike son.
you seem working very hard to put words in somebodies mouth here son.
whos running away now son?
I said ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM from the get-go, ass-hole. Live with it.
My my what an angry bitter little man we are tonight Will,,,,,,,,,,,,why is it you cant EVER debate civilly without the name calling and angry bitter ranting Will.
When ever you start losing a debate which is like ALL THE TIME............there you go with the name calling and angry bitter ranting.
You NEED to stay on your meds Will!
Good night, ass-holes.
lose the debate
call names
typical vintage will here
"The US turned down Ho." Just admit that you said it. What's so fucking hard?
Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...
I said ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM from the get-go, ass-hole. Live with it."
So YOUR saying YOUR for disenfranchising ANYONE who disagrees with YOU regardless of where they are on the political spectrum.............damn your More like GWB the DICTATOR/DECIDER in chief than I thought.
I said ACROSS THE POLITICAL SPECTRUM from the get-go
Right we got that,
Everyone you doesn't think uses the proper criteria for casting a vote,
Just like I said.
ANYBODY you disagree with about why they cast their vote.
The only place you win debates, Mike, is in your mind. Sorry, Dudes, but one of us actually has to work.
You have to work at 9PM Willy?
Thats a good one Will gets his ass handed to him and all of the sudden he has to run to work LOL.............nice one artful dodger!
"The US turned down Ho."
is the same as;
the U.S. blocked those elections
Ho was asking for aid if remember right.
aid to keep the French out,
absolutely NOTHING about elections in Vietnam came up until the Dulles brothers wanted to use the IA to establish a puppet government in Saigon when they French left after the Geneva accords of 1954 (during Eisenhower's admin) and after Eisenhower and the Dulles brothers found out they wouldn't win those elections did they block them.
But you claim Truman blocked elections or at least I said it, which you have NO proof of
just like I claimed also.
You have proved NONE of your claims, and I have validated all of mine,
Yet you still hold we are the one winning in our minds?
a little dementia showin' there will
At least you get your comment count up eh will?
Good night delusion boy
Keep thinking you are right even though the facts beg to differ.
Nite Mike,
hope he grows up someday.
Cliffy,
The founding fathers, (you know, those people whose ideas you guys keep saying we need to get back to) didn't believe everyone should have the right to vote either.
As I recall only land owners could vote back then since they only wanted people with a vested interest in America to vote.
(They only wanted educated and INFORMED people to vote as well)
So I guess to Cliffy the founding fathers are equal to Joseph Stalin, Saddam Hussein, Kim il Jung, Fidel Castro and Adolph Hitler...
Ummm, Voltron this great country FIXED that, Weyrich and other shit stacks like you and will want to turn back time ................
"this great country FIXED that, Weyrich and other shit stacks like you and will want to turn back time..."
Yes, we "fixed" the traitorous ideas of the founding fathers...
But Cliffy, you guys keep saying you WANT to get back to what they envisioned.
Guess that's only the things YOU approve of eh?
So much for your "defense" of the Constitution.
So how do you suggest we maintain our "democracy" if uneducated ill informed people with no vested interest in the continuation of our country are allowed to vote?
"It is known as the Pentagon Papers, and it very clearly shows Vietnam would have recovered as a society and country quite well from French colonial rule EXCEPT for the US government of Eisenhower through actions of the Dulles brothers blocking it from happening."
Recovered as what Cliffy? An antagonist communist nation?
That is what they were trying to prevent.
Why are you such a staunch defender of Communism?
Vietnam would have recovered as a society and country quite well from French colonial rule
shit for brains it is in the quote you posted
BTW are ya gonna take bart up or are ya STILL GUTLESS?
I see you cut and run from the LIES you were tellin' at Lydia's gutless.
Why are you such a staunch defender of Communism?
didn't defend communisn son
just democracy and the right of the Vietnamese to decide their own future NOT Alan Dulles and the CIA like they tried and failed to do.
But as usual twisting people's words is all ya got eh Eric, er i mean Voltron?
So how do you suggest we maintain our "democracy" if uneducated ill informed people with no vested interest in the continuation of our country are allowed to vote?
All citizens have a vested interest in this country even if assholes like Weyrich, Will and YOU want to block their right to vote.
just not the right wing hate filled agenda you clowns have pushed for years which has failed miserably during the mis-administration of bush the dumb.
Wanna try twisting words again, since that and LYING is all ya really got gutless?
But Cliffy, you guys keep saying you WANT to get back to what they envisioned.
wrong shit for brains that is the agenda of the federalist society and right wing assholes like YOU
It wasn't 9PM, Mike. It was midnight. I live in CT, ass-hole. And I had to go to work this morning.
Here it is again, Clif. "Ho's request for the US to help him establish a DEMOCRACY (hello!) in Vietnam RIGHT AFTER WW2 (1956 wasn't right after WW2, schmo).......After the US (the president at that time? - HARRY TRUMAN) turned Ho down...." I don't know, Cliffy, it doesn't sound like President Truman really wanted Ho Chi Minh to be the president of Vietnam, either. And that does make sense, me-bucko. Truman was a virulent anti-Communist who saw that Minh was nothing but a thug and a Bolshevik who would no doubt ruin that country. He was a visionary, in other words. Hey, I wonder what Obama would have done back in 1945/1956. I think he would have done the same thing that Truman and Ike did. I mean, he did say that Bush was mistaken in allowing the Palestinian elections in Gaza. Right?
Clif, you lying sack of shit. I never said I wanted to block anybody's right to vote. I only said that uninformed people (whatever their political persuasion) shouldn't vote. They should stay home and drink their beer, etc.. Speaking of beer, Clif, you do know, don't you, that a lot of people need a pictured I.D. to buy it? Kind of an outrage, huh? LOL
Hey, Volt. I wonder how many more elections the dapper Mr. Minh would have allowed. I'm thinking it's a small number and it rhymes with hero.
We are no more than free to comment.
Say two or three words Will does not like and he bans you for life, deletes ALL future comments and talks about you without giving you a voice to answer.
Bad upbringing is what I attribute it to
"The carpet-bombing of Tokyo was a war-crime, Clif (and, yes, so was the carpet-bombing of Dresden, ordered by Churchill"
Churchill?
No Sir not Churchill,
But the various atrocities of WWII do not excuse the deliberate crimes in undeclared war TODAY and waiting to investigate AND PROSECUTE as you advocate Will, will create the war crimes of tomorrow through precedence in a much more real way than you are trying to create now with invalid connections to a very different situation.
As I remember my history - the govt. didn't lie us into a war with Germany and Japan both nations formally declared war on us, and after we were attacked we declared formal war against them.
Also both Germany and Japan conducted attacks against civilian population centers BEFORE we responded in the language the understood and was required.
Blair should face trial, with a whole cast of others yes - and soon before too many of the bad actors leave the stage from bad hearts etc.
I love this country and I served it proud, but I didn't do that so a gang of punks could use it the way these did.
If your goal is to talk about issues civilly, you can post here. If, however, your goal is to besmirch my single mother, not so much. I believe the topic was war crimes....and double standards. When terrorists deliberately target citizens, it is quite rightly called terrorism. When, however, we do/did it, it's called entirely something else. And then there's the partisan component. As for Bush specifically, I don't myself care for the fellow. But to PROVE that he lied, that could be tough. I tend to agree with Scott McClellan, that it was more dogmatism, ideology, and group think, people telling the president what he wanted to hear, et.. Torture? Perhaps. Though it doesn't look like Obama wants to touch that one, period. We'll have to see what Congress and the Senate do, I guess. That, and what happens to Bush when he travels to a country not called Canada.
My mother was a widow, Clif.
1138, Cliffy wants me to think that that's you. Still consider him to be an honorable comrade?
Damn will,you still don't know who this is?
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