Fiscally Conservative, Socially tolerant, Anti-War
Ixnay on blame the victim.
I agree that he was a victim (to a certain degree), Jerry, but not of the cops. He was a victim of the greedy politicians who've put such a draconian tax on tobacco that they've created this black market (people going to North Carolina for cheap cigarettes and bringing them back to New York to sell for a profit) in which fellows like garner take advantage of. The cops tried for over 10 minutes to get this guy to come willingly and a black female sargeant said, enough.
Jerry,grow up.....the cops trying to arrest that fat bastard for the 22nd time are the victim's.That no personal responsibility liberal bullshit is sickening.
Will takes the thread.
He does, for following all the way up to the policy which caused this situation.But Jerry is right also. The man was a victim of cops using the choke hold... already prohibited by that very department.
Love your solution, Rusty. Let's just kill all the fat asthmatics. Merry Fuckyoumas.
I'm not unsympathetic to your position, Jerry. I'm just not entirely certain what the cops should have done here. Should they have just given him a ticket maybe? I don't know and what about the African-American merchants whose rights were being infringed upon by Garner? Do not they have some rights as well?
As you can see, I'm conflicted.
Will: why bring race into it at all? It's a meme injected into these discussions by the very racist protesters. The ones that argue that only black lives matter. This meme has been at play despite the fact that race wasn't a factor at all in any of these incidents.
The police should have the proper training in how to subdue a person without killing them, and they should use those techniques exclusively. I would rather see such a person released rather than killed if the police are so inept that they can't handle him.
You know who agrees with you, dmarks - Garner's family.
He was a massive guy (who was also being bellicose and flailing his arms), Jerry. They had to go high/for the neck. Now, if you want to criticize the responders for not being Johnny on the Spot, yeah, maybe I can agree with you on that but the cops were just doing the job that the greedy politicians (i.e., Cuomo, Bloomberg, de Blasio, etc.) were asking them to do.
And like Russ said, if the guy (who had already been arrested 20-something times) had simply not been an asshole and cooperated, he'd still be alive today (probably getting arrested again). You have to put at least SOME of the onus/responsibility on him.
Agrees on what?
It's hard to use such training in therror best way possible, Jerry, when you have someone like Michael Brown, a berzerk charging you, inflicting serious harm...But the Garner situation wasn't anything like that. Your are quite correct on this. They didn't even follow their own department policy.
That it wasn't about race - Garner's family said that.
"You have to put at least SOME of the onus/responsibility on him. "What he was doing was illegal. The big crime? Selling individual cigarettes - hence tax evasion. OK! He tried to get away. OK. So, he bears some responsibility that he died? I think that expands the Death Penalty a little to far. Tax evasion, and even evading arrest, are not capital crimes. Although, if tax evasion was a capital crime, I bet we would see the end of the Death Penalty real quick.
So, they should have let him go and allowed him to be a nuisance to the legitimate store owners? How is that serving the public? And it wasn't their intention to kill him, Jerry (if you had studied ethics, you would have known that intention is a critical part of morality).......And, yes, he bears a huge amount of the responsibility for his death; some big fat fuck with asthma putting himself in a stressful situation.......And why don't you criticize the greedy leftist politicians who have put the cops in this situation?
Will asked:"So, they should have let him go and allowed him to be a nuisance to the legitimate store owners?"Surely you agree that the situation wasn't an emergency and the cops had plenty of time to a rrest him without killing him.
Will said: ".And why don't you criticize the greedy leftist politicians who have put the cops in this situation? "I'm one who places a LOT of blame on these greedy folks; the real robber barons.
"....Although, if tax evasion was a capital crime..."Jerry, some tax evasion is a crime. Some isn't, and shouldn't be.The part that is a crime is not paying the tax you are legally required to.The part that isn't a crime is altering your behavior, legally, to minimize your legal tax burden.I don't blame people one bit for relocating money to foreign banks, as long as we have such ridiculous, out of proportion (compared to other countries) overtaxation. These tax rates are a message by the government encouraging people to invest their money overseas instead of here. Who are we to blame for people doing what the government encourages them to do?
If the police are so incompetent that they cannot restrain a fat asthmatic man without killing him, then yes, I would prefer that the let him go. The greedy leftist politicians may have passed a stupid law (it wouldn't be the first stupid law passed by either leftist or rightist greedy politicians), but they didn't tell the police to use methods that they were not even supposed to be using.
a) They didn't know that he was asthmatic and b) you're leaving out the fact that he was 6'4" 350 pounds and flailing his arms like a lunatic. And it wasn't a choke-hold in that if it was, he wouldn't have been able to talk. A guy that size you have to go for the neck and 95% of the time it doesn't result in injury.
"...95% of the time it doesn't result in injury"So a 5% injury rate is OK with you?!?
Jerry, that's way too high of a risk percentage to use such a procedure in anything but an emergency situation. And this was not one.
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