In a just universe, Attorney General Holder would be forced to look at this picture every night before he goes to bed. Not that it would necessarily cause him any sleeplessness, mind you....
If Alberto Gonzales had any decency he wouldn't have lied about firing US attorneys for not prosecuting bogus "voter fraud" cases, helped bush justify torture, or lied during his confirmation hearing about what he did to cover up bush's drunk driving record.
As for Eric Holder... I'm not convinced he lied, and I doubt he'll resign.
wd, why do you always try to justify bad behavior with other bad behavior? As for Mr. Holder (also a big part of the Marc Rich pardon/scandal, btw), the man is either lying or he flat-out doesn't have a clue. Either way, I think that Les is probably right and that the fellow should step down (an act that would probably HELP the Obama cadidacy).
dmarks muzzily said: Which voter fraud was bogus? ACORN's election fruad crimes were quite real. And there was no torture.
ACORN was cleared. I've given you the link to the story previously. dmarks not believing the truth doesn't change what the truth is. But I wasn't referring to ACORN. If you aren't familiar with the bush administration scandal regarding the US attorneys who were fired for not prosecuting bogus voter fraud cases... look it up.
And waterboarding is torture under the Geneva Convention. Although waterboarding isn't the worst or only torture bush is responsible for.
Will: why do you always try to justify bad behavior with other bad behavior?
Too late in deleteing your comment dmarks, I already quoted you (including your typo). dmarks must have come to his senses (a rare event) and realized what BS his comment was.
I mispelled a word, and wanted to avoid spelling flames from you. And sure enough, you did it.
My comment was quite factual. ACORN was caught red handed in the crime of election fraud, stuffing voter registration rolls with fake names.
ACORN's actions give us more than enough reason to require voter ID and other methods to purge non-voters.
"And waterboarding is torture under the Geneva Convention. Although waterboarding isn't the worst or only torture bush is responsible for."
Some say it is, some say it isn't. Unlike wild-ass unsubstantiated claims of Bush being a war criminal that can only get support from your favorite antisemite failed attorney and Saddam's pet child rapist, there actually IS debate about this one.
Among those who say it isn't torture and approve of it are hard-left leaders such as Nancy Pelosi, who approved of it and gave her blessing.
dmarks: ACORN was caught red handed in the crime of election fraud...
ACORN was cleared of these bogus charges. There was no voter fraud. And they were never even accused of "election fraud". (These are two different things... look it up).
dmarks: ...your favorite antisemite failed attorney and Saddam's pet child rapist...
You're referring to people who don't exist.
dmarks: Among those who say it isn't torture and approve of it are hard-left leaders such as Nancy Pelosi, who approved of it and gave her blessing.
This never happened. Pelosi was kept in the dark in regards to waterboarding. Some in the CIA lied and said she was briefed, but they were proven to not be telling the truth by former Senator Bob Graham, who received a classified briefing on terror detainees during the same month in the fall of 2002 as Nancy Pelosi. Graham says he was not briefed about the use of either waterboarding or enhanced interrogation techniques.
He also said that several briefings the CIA said took place never happened (he confirmed this by checking his diaries... where he kept meticulous notes of his daily activities).
WD: There were in fact fake votes found on their lists. And voter fraud is a subset election fraud. Come on, what do you think voters participate in? At the end of that you seemed to justify ACORN's voter fraud crimes by saying it is not election fraud.
ACORN escaped punishment because they had the contractors they commanded to pack the voter rolls fall on their swords.
"You're referring to people who don't exist."
Francis Boyle, who smeared Jews with his "Jewistan" label, and strongly supports groups that have as their main goal wiping out Jews is of course antisemitic. But you seem to want to excuse it.
Scott Ritter's criminal record is well known, as is the fact that he was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by Saddam's business network to produce a pro-Saddam documentary.
The FactCheck article you link to does NOT prove Nancy Pelosi lied about the briefings.
Pelosi: "we were not — told that waterboarding or any of these other enhanced interrogation methods were used".
Pelosi (5 months later): "The only mention of waterboarding at that briefing was that it was not being employed".
From this "Fact" Check determines that Pelosi "backpeddled".
What a bunch of dopes.
"Fact" Check isn't one of my favorite sites. I've quoted them in the past when it seemed they were taking this checking of facts thing seriously... but now they've apparently decided to go in another direction.
dmarks: There were in fact fake votes found on their lists.
Poor, poor dmarks. You are so confused. ACORN had no lists of votes.
BTW, voter fraud is when individual voters cheat, and election fraud is when those conducting the election cheat. The first one rarely happens, while the second one is how Republicans "win" a lot of elections.
The bushies used it twice to steal the election for GWb. First in FL where Katherine Harris and Jeb disenfranchised people who were legally entitled to vote, and then in OH where they electronically jiggered the vote.
dmarks: But you seem to want to excuse it.
If true I'd condemn it.
dmarks: Scott Ritter's criminal record is well known...
Well known only to cranks and conspiracy theory nuts. You can repeat these baloney accusations as many times as you like, but that doesn't make them true. Only facts make things true... and you have yet to produce any (and we all know why: They don't exist).
You can't even get your bullshit story straight: before you told me that Scott Ritter wasn't convicted of a crime because taking bribes isn't illegal (yea, dumb, huh? This probably explains why you're changing your story now).
Yes, wd, water-boarding IS torture according to the Geneva Conventions. But, so, too, is the targeting of innocent civilians, something that FDR did and did repeatedly to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dead woman and children.
WD: You got everything wrong. Rather than correct a fool without facts on everything, I will pick just one silly point. When I pointed out Ritter's criminal record,
"Well known only to cranks and conspiracy theory nuts"
Actually, Ritter is a convicted felon. His crimes are part of the public government record. Sorry, I didn't get this off Prison Planet.com. I suggest you check into this, you might learn something.
It's amazing the lies you repeat again and again when the fact remains that your hero is a convicted felon.
And I can't let this slide:
"The bushies used it twice to steal the election for GWb."
Sorry, WD. The "bushies" "stole" the election by daring to get more votes. It's Civics 101. You are a sore loser who knows nothing about the elections. Exactly like a Birther in every way.
"The first one rarely happens, while the second one is how Republicans "win" a lot of elections."
Poor blind partisan idiot WD with a skull full of mucs. This has never happened. However, time and again in elections (including the Presidential one in 2000, and again in 2004) the voters happen to decide to choose Republicans.
Not Jeb Bush. Not Kathleen Harris. In fact, they would have been shirking their duties if they had not approved of the actual vote counts in Florida. And they did.
This is allowed under our Constitution. Sit down and shut up and stop whining and making up stuff because your lose elections and you can't deal with it.
"Why do you always try to justify bad behavior with other bad behavior?"...I'm not. I don't consider Mr.s Bush OR FDR war criminals. You're the one who's throwing around the war criminal label and doing it most inconsistently.
My mistake. You said taking bribes isn't illegal. That is what I was talking about... this nonsense about Saddam paying him to say there were no WMD. That is the "record" which is well known only to cranks and conspiracy theory nuts (like dmarks).
But these two things have nothing to do with one another. You keep suggesting that they do. Because you can't refute the facts reported by Scott Ritter (and he was only one of numerous people who confirmed that Iraq had no WMD).
dmarks: It's amazing the lies you repeat again and again when the fact remains that your hero is a convicted felon.
You're an asshole. You say he's my "hero"... implying I approve of what he did that got him in trouble with the law. Scott Ritter (who is still a Republican as far as I know) is NOT a hero of mine. I simply pointed out that he went to Iraq, looked for WMD, and didn't find any.
And what "lies" have I repeated again and again? You're the one repeating lies... like this baloney about Saddam paying Scott Ritter to lie about WMD Iraq didn't have. And we know you're lying due to your refusal to back up your accusations. It's amazing that you think you can get away with this BS.
dmarks: Poor blind partisan idiot WD with a skull full of mucs. This has never happened.
What the hell is "mucs"? Also, it did happen. Investigative reporter Greg Palast has documented how both elections were stolen. This is what Republicans do! Right now Governor Rick Scott of FL is trying to kick US citizens off the voter rolls by sending them letters saying they aren't citizens and can't vote. It's incredibly obvious what the Republican's game is, so you can stuff this "never happened", "whining", and "making stuff up" crap.
dmarks: Sit down and shut up and stop whining and making up stuff because your lose elections and you can't deal with it.
You're the one who should sit down and shut up in regards to this ACORN committing voter fraud nonsense you keep insisting happened even though ACORN was found not to have done anything wrong.
From the NYT, 12/23/2009: "Report Uncovers No Voting Fraud by Acorn". (excerpt) "A new report on the community group Acorn by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service has found no evidence of fraudulent voting or of violations of federal financing rules by the group in the past five years".
Will: I'm not.
So you consider waterboarding and torture good behavior?
I'm against water-boarding and torture. I just wouldn't put the water-boarding of 3 total douche-bags on the same level as gassing the Kurds (a la Saddam) or intentionally slaughtering innocent children (a la Assad).
If these allegations can be substantiated, then, yes, there absolutely should be some prosecutions for them. ? is, why hasn't Attorney General Holder called for any.
We aren't looking back. Obviously I don't agree with Holder or Obama on this. And why are you AGAIN excusing bad behavior with more bad behavior (bush administration did it but Holder/Obama aren't prosecuting)?
It was a simple question, wd. I just want to know why aren't they looking into it. Is it simply that they don't want to relinquish executive power and/or the fact that Democrats could also be embarrassed by the potential findings?
Will asked: "If these allegations can be substantiated, then, yes, there absolutely should be some prosecutions for them. ? is, why hasn't Attorney General Holder called for any."
The answer is obvious. Eric Holder, a hardline partisan left-winger who would love for some "red meat" on this, can't find anything. That makes more sense than a nutty conspiracy theory.
Eric Holder... can't find anything. That makes more sense than a nutty conspiracy theory.
Bullshit. There is no "conspiracy theory", they just don't want to open that can of worms. They're protecting themselves. If they prosecute bush for his crimes then they have to watch themselves and be sure not to commit similar crimes. Presidents never do anything that could limit their own power.
That's something that can't happen, as there are no crimes to prosecute.
Yes, they are protecting themselves, indeed. They'd look like partisan idiots if they went on such a fishing expidition into a pond that had no fish at all.
Rusty: She voiced her theory that republicans are going after Steadman on Fast and Furious because he is fighting states voter ID laws.
I agree with Minority leader Pelosi. That, and a desire to make Obama look bad in an election year. It's political theater and a diversion.
dmarks: That's something that can't happen, as there are no crimes to prosecute.
I agree with the former head of the IAEA, Mohamed ElBaradei, who thinks bush's hyping of Iraq's WMD was a "grotesque distortion" and that bush should be tried for war crimes.
36 comments:
You don't think he would have been shot with a different gun?
At least the blood wouldn't have been dripping off of our fingertips.
I blame the NRA for this kind of thing.
If Holder had any decency he would resign and just go away. To wherever useless ex AG's go.
If Alberto Gonzales had any decency he wouldn't have lied about firing US attorneys for not prosecuting bogus "voter fraud" cases, helped bush justify torture, or lied during his confirmation hearing about what he did to cover up bush's drunk driving record.
As for Eric Holder... I'm not convinced he lied, and I doubt he'll resign.
wd, why do you always try to justify bad behavior with other bad behavior? As for Mr. Holder (also a big part of the Marc Rich pardon/scandal, btw), the man is either lying or he flat-out doesn't have a clue. Either way, I think that Les is probably right and that the fellow should step down (an act that would probably HELP the Obama cadidacy).
And, yes, Mr. Gonzalez should have stepped down , too.
dmarks muzzily said: Which voter fraud was bogus? ACORN's election fruad crimes were quite real. And there was no torture.
ACORN was cleared. I've given you the link to the story previously. dmarks not believing the truth doesn't change what the truth is. But I wasn't referring to ACORN. If you aren't familiar with the bush administration scandal regarding the US attorneys who were fired for not prosecuting bogus voter fraud cases... look it up.
And waterboarding is torture under the Geneva Convention. Although waterboarding isn't the worst or only torture bush is responsible for.
Will: why do you always try to justify bad behavior with other bad behavior?
Always? Try never. I've never done this.
Too late in deleteing your comment dmarks, I already quoted you (including your typo). dmarks must have come to his senses (a rare event) and realized what BS his comment was.
I mispelled a word, and wanted to avoid spelling flames from you. And sure enough, you did it.
My comment was quite factual. ACORN was caught red handed in the crime of election fraud, stuffing voter registration rolls with fake names.
ACORN's actions give us more than enough reason to require voter ID and other methods to purge non-voters.
"And waterboarding is torture under the Geneva Convention. Although waterboarding isn't the worst or only torture bush is responsible for."
Some say it is, some say it isn't. Unlike wild-ass unsubstantiated claims of Bush being a war criminal that can only get support from your favorite antisemite failed attorney and Saddam's pet child rapist, there actually IS debate about this one.
Among those who say it isn't torture and approve of it are hard-left leaders such as Nancy Pelosi, who approved of it and gave her blessing.
dmarks: ACORN was caught red handed in the crime of election fraud...
ACORN was cleared of these bogus charges. There was no voter fraud. And they were never even accused of "election fraud". (These are two different things... look it up).
dmarks: ...your favorite antisemite failed attorney and Saddam's pet child rapist...
You're referring to people who don't exist.
dmarks: Among those who say it isn't torture and approve of it are hard-left leaders such as Nancy Pelosi, who approved of it and gave her blessing.
This never happened. Pelosi was kept in the dark in regards to waterboarding. Some in the CIA lied and said she was briefed, but they were proven to not be telling the truth by former Senator Bob Graham, who received a classified briefing on terror detainees during the same month in the fall of 2002 as Nancy Pelosi. Graham says he was not briefed about the use of either waterboarding or enhanced interrogation techniques.
He also said that several briefings the CIA said took place never happened (he confirmed this by checking his diaries... where he kept meticulous notes of his daily activities).
WD: There were in fact fake votes found on their lists. And voter fraud is a subset election fraud. Come on, what do you think voters participate in? At the end of that you seemed to justify ACORN's voter fraud crimes by saying it is not election fraud.
ACORN escaped punishment because they had the contractors they commanded to pack the voter rolls fall on their swords.
"You're referring to people who don't exist."
Francis Boyle, who smeared Jews with his "Jewistan" label, and strongly supports groups that have as their main goal wiping out Jews is of course antisemitic. But you seem to want to excuse it.
Scott Ritter's criminal record is well known, as is the fact that he was paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by Saddam's business network to produce a pro-Saddam documentary.
As for Pelosi, check out factcheck, one of your favorite sites.
They document and prove that Pelosi lied about the briefings.
The FactCheck article you link to does NOT prove Nancy Pelosi lied about the briefings.
Pelosi: "we were not — told that waterboarding or any of these other enhanced interrogation methods were used".
Pelosi (5 months later): "The only mention of waterboarding at that briefing was that it was not being employed".
From this "Fact" Check determines that Pelosi "backpeddled".
What a bunch of dopes.
"Fact" Check isn't one of my favorite sites. I've quoted them in the past when it seemed they were taking this checking of facts thing seriously... but now they've apparently decided to go in another direction.
dmarks: There were in fact fake votes found on their lists.
Poor, poor dmarks. You are so confused. ACORN had no lists of votes.
BTW, voter fraud is when individual voters cheat, and election fraud is when those conducting the election cheat. The first one rarely happens, while the second one is how Republicans "win" a lot of elections.
The bushies used it twice to steal the election for GWb. First in FL where Katherine Harris and Jeb disenfranchised people who were legally entitled to vote, and then in OH where they electronically jiggered the vote.
dmarks: But you seem to want to excuse it.
If true I'd condemn it.
dmarks: Scott Ritter's criminal record is well known...
Well known only to cranks and conspiracy theory nuts. You can repeat these baloney accusations as many times as you like, but that doesn't make them true. Only facts make things true... and you have yet to produce any (and we all know why: They don't exist).
You can't even get your bullshit story straight: before you told me that Scott Ritter wasn't convicted of a crime because taking bribes isn't illegal (yea, dumb, huh? This probably explains why you're changing your story now).
Yes, wd, water-boarding IS torture according to the Geneva Conventions. But, so, too, is the targeting of innocent civilians, something that FDR did and did repeatedly to the tune of hundreds of thousands of dead woman and children.
Why do you always try to justify bad behavior with other bad behavior?
WD: You got everything wrong. Rather than correct a fool without facts on everything, I will pick just one silly point. When I pointed out Ritter's criminal record,
"Well known only to cranks and conspiracy theory nuts"
Actually, Ritter is a convicted felon. His crimes are part of the public government record. Sorry, I didn't get this off Prison Planet.com. I suggest you check into this, you might learn something.
It's amazing the lies you repeat again and again when the fact remains that your hero is a convicted felon.
And I can't let this slide:
"The bushies used it twice to steal the election for GWb."
Sorry, WD. The "bushies" "stole" the election by daring to get more votes. It's Civics 101. You are a sore loser who knows nothing about the elections. Exactly like a Birther in every way.
Finally,
"The first one rarely happens, while the second one is how Republicans "win" a lot of elections."
Poor blind partisan idiot WD with a skull full of mucs. This has never happened. However, time and again in elections (including the Presidential one in 2000, and again in 2004) the voters happen to decide to choose Republicans.
Not Jeb Bush. Not Kathleen Harris. In fact, they would have been shirking their duties if they had not approved of the actual vote counts in Florida. And they did.
This is allowed under our Constitution. Sit down and shut up and stop whining and making up stuff because your lose elections and you can't deal with it.
"Why do you always try to justify bad behavior with other bad behavior?"...I'm not. I don't consider Mr.s Bush OR FDR war criminals. You're the one who's throwing around the war criminal label and doing it most inconsistently.
dmarks: Actually, Ritter is a convicted felon.
My mistake. You said taking bribes isn't illegal. That is what I was talking about... this nonsense about Saddam paying him to say there were no WMD. That is the "record" which is well known only to cranks and conspiracy theory nuts (like dmarks).
But these two things have nothing to do with one another. You keep suggesting that they do. Because you can't refute the facts reported by Scott Ritter (and he was only one of numerous people who confirmed that Iraq had no WMD).
dmarks: It's amazing the lies you repeat again and again when the fact remains that your hero is a convicted felon.
You're an asshole. You say he's my "hero"... implying I approve of what he did that got him in trouble with the law. Scott Ritter (who is still a Republican as far as I know) is NOT a hero of mine. I simply pointed out that he went to Iraq, looked for WMD, and didn't find any.
And what "lies" have I repeated again and again? You're the one repeating lies... like this baloney about Saddam paying Scott Ritter to lie about WMD Iraq didn't have. And we know you're lying due to your refusal to back up your accusations. It's amazing that you think you can get away with this BS.
dmarks: Poor blind partisan idiot WD with a skull full of mucs. This has never happened.
What the hell is "mucs"? Also, it did happen. Investigative reporter Greg Palast has documented how both elections were stolen. This is what Republicans do! Right now Governor Rick Scott of FL is trying to kick US citizens off the voter rolls by sending them letters saying they aren't citizens and can't vote. It's incredibly obvious what the Republican's game is, so you can stuff this "never happened", "whining", and "making stuff up" crap.
dmarks: Sit down and shut up and stop whining and making up stuff because your lose elections and you can't deal with it.
You're the one who should sit down and shut up in regards to this ACORN committing voter fraud nonsense you keep insisting happened even though ACORN was found not to have done anything wrong.
From the NYT, 12/23/2009: "Report Uncovers No Voting Fraud by Acorn". (excerpt) "A new report on the community group Acorn by the nonpartisan Congressional Research Service has found no evidence of fraudulent voting or of violations of federal financing rules by the group in the past five years".
Will: I'm not.
So you consider waterboarding and torture good behavior?
I'm against water-boarding and torture. I just wouldn't put the water-boarding of 3 total douche-bags on the same level as gassing the Kurds (a la Saddam) or intentionally slaughtering innocent children (a la Assad).
What about torturing detainees in our custody to death? Is that also excusable because it's not as bad as what others did?
If these allegations can be substantiated, then, yes, there absolutely should be some prosecutions for them. ? is, why hasn't Attorney General Holder called for any.
We aren't looking back. Obviously I don't agree with Holder or Obama on this. And why are you AGAIN excusing bad behavior with more bad behavior (bush administration did it but Holder/Obama aren't prosecuting)?
It was a simple question, wd. I just want to know why aren't they looking into it. Is it simply that they don't want to relinquish executive power and/or the fact that Democrats could also be embarrassed by the potential findings?
Will asked: "If these allegations can be substantiated, then, yes, there absolutely should be some prosecutions for them. ? is, why hasn't Attorney General Holder called for any."
The answer is obvious. Eric Holder, a hardline partisan left-winger who would love for some "red meat" on this, can't find anything. That makes more sense than a nutty conspiracy theory.
Eric Holder... can't find anything. That makes more sense than a nutty conspiracy theory.
Bullshit. There is no "conspiracy theory", they just don't want to open that can of worms. They're protecting themselves. If they prosecute bush for his crimes then they have to watch themselves and be sure not to commit similar crimes. Presidents never do anything that could limit their own power.
"If they prosecute bush for his crimes ..."
That's something that can't happen, as there are no crimes to prosecute.
Yes, they are protecting themselves, indeed. They'd look like partisan idiots if they went on such a fishing expidition into a pond that had no fish at all.
I think conformation was given yesterday that Nancy Pelosi is indeed Bat Shit Crazy.
She voiced her theory that republicans are going after Steadman on Fast and Furious because he is fighting states voter ID laws.
It looks like the botox has reached and numbed her brain cells.
Rusty: She voiced her theory that republicans are going after Steadman on Fast and Furious because he is fighting states voter ID laws.
I agree with Minority leader Pelosi. That, and a desire to make Obama look bad in an election year. It's political theater and a diversion.
dmarks: That's something that can't happen, as there are no crimes to prosecute.
I agree with the former head of the IAEA, Mohamed ElBaradei, who thinks bush's hyping of Iraq's WMD was a "grotesque distortion" and that bush should be tried for war crimes.
Wow,somebody named Mohamed is pissed off at W! Go figure,who would have ever thunk it?
A racist comment from Rusty? How unusual. He's usually such a tolerant guy. No wait, he's a bigoted misogynist a-hole POS. Nevermind.
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