Thursday, February 12, 2015

On Truman and the Bomb

The traditional narrative states that Truman didn't have a choice but to drop the bomb and that the only other alternative was a massive land invasion that would have resulted in a gazillion American fatalities. I reject this assertion completely. a) We had the Japanese mainland completely surrounded with an air-tight naval blockade and absolute air superiority (blowing up anything that moved, essentially) and b) the Japanese had been looking for a way to honorably surrender for quite a while with a spate of reasonable conditions and the Americans refused even to talk (it was full, unconditional surrender or nothing).........................................................................................................And even if there was an element of truth to what these court apologists have been claiming, targeting civilians is still a) a war crime and b) a demonstrably inefficient way to win a war. If you're asking for my opinion here, dropping those two horrible weapons was largely for Russian consumption; a) to keep them out of the Asian war theater and b) to frighten the holy bejesus out of them. But, come on, couldn't they have just blown up a deserted island or two - you know, instead irradiating 100,000 folks?...Seriously, if this doesn't constitute a war crime, then we really need to just stop using the term 'cause at this point it's meaningless.

9 comments:

dmarks said...

Yeah, reminded of certain individuals claiming George W. Bush was a war criminal while denying anything at all concerning these Democrats. Which all boils down to nothing more than sour grapes that GWB won the election in early Nov. 2000, and nothing more.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Bush mad miscues for sure but compared to Lincoln, McKinley, TR, Wilson, FDR, and LBJ, the dude was a piker.

BB-Idaho said...

Yes, the A-bomb use was partly to
impress the Soviets. In addition,
the Japanese had proven consistently to be very tenacious
defenders- Bataan, Tarawa, Guadalcanal, Iwo Jima, Okinawa,
Peleliu, New Guinea, Bouganville,
etc. My opinion based on studies
of the then current military options and conversations with
a few more than bitter vets.
Bush: I can sympathize, but
'preemptive invasions' were more
a Hitler thing.

Les Carpenter said...

Probably only due to circumstances of the times.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

According to researcher, Ward Wilson (senior fellow at the British American Security Information Council), the Japanese surrender in 1945 had virtually nothing to do with Hiroshima and Nagasaki and everything to do with the fact that the Soviet Union had just declared war on Japan and were rapidly preparing for an invasion (they had already invaded Manchuria and several islands to the north of Japan).........................................................................................And the fellow makes a very persuasive case. a) The timing is much more proximate to the Soviet actions (a full 72 hours had passed since Hiroshima and it wasn't until the Soviet invasion of Manchuria that the Japanese council finally met). b) The U.S. had already destroyed over six dozen Japanese cities via conventional methods and so what was one more, really? And c) the Soviet declaration and invasion represented a much more strategic change in the course of the war and it is that which generally moves the needle and not a change in the method of carnage....I mean, I know that the U.S. has this visceral (not to mention, perverse) hubris that it was us who won the war in the Pacific (through our ingenuity, technology, etc.) and that the other countries were simply along for the ride but maybe this is a myth as well.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

It was a war crime with minimal strategic value, in other words (not to mention the fact that Eisenhower, Leahy, etc. were against it).

BB-Idaho said...

Most studies of the projected invasion of Japan at that time
concluded:
"If the study shows that the behavior of nations in all historical cases comparable to Japan's has in fact been invariably consistent with the behavior of the troops in battle, then it means that the Japanese dead and ineffectives at the time of the defeat will exceed the corresponding number for the Germans. In other words, we shall probably have to kill at least 5 to 10 million Japanese. This might cost us between 1.7 and 4 million casualties including 400,000 and 800,000 killed." Source
- - a Source from an admittedly
Libertarian University ---
Which, if we accept, suggests the
A-bombings saved more US and Japanese lives than the alternatives..Hiroshima-Aug6, Nagisaki-Aug9, USSR declares war
Aug9. On Aug 14, the Emperor
declared, "Moreover, the enemy now possesses a new and terrible weapon with the power to destroy many innocent lives and do incalculable damage. Should we continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization." Ward Wilson's
findings not withstanding, it is
hard to believe that after years
of vicious combat with American
forces, 5 days of pussyfooting by
Stalin's eastern army was the
decisive factor.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

You're falling into the either/or trap. It WASN'T a choice between invasion and the slaughtering of innocent civilians. We had them totally blockaded and could have easily starved them out while at the same time negotiated a peaceful settlement which the Japanese had been trying to enact for months. And after we had already obliterated 4-5 dozen cities through conventional means, what frigging difference did it make that we were using a brand new weapon? Russia entering the theater was a strategic game changer and it is strategy that wins wars not terror and war criminality.

BB-Idaho said...

Strategic bombing and severe food shortages didn't work that well
against Germany, and the Japanese were far more fanatical in those years. I'll stick with my opinion, you are welcome to yours:
there certainly is enough info/data/metrics material to
pore through.