I believe I read something about this program beginning under bush. I'd have to look it up though.
Have at it, me-buck. And make sure that Rusty has an alibi, too.
According to a 10/14/2011 HuffPo story: (excerpt) Earlier this month, it was disclosed that the gun-walking tactic (ATF agents – depending on Mexican authorities to follow up – let guns "walk" across the border in an effort to identify higher-ups in gun networks) didn't begin under Obama, but was also used in 2006 under his predecessor, George W. Bush. [end excerpt]My conclusion: This isn't an Obama Administration scandal, much as Will and Rusty want it to be. I'd call it an ATF scandal. What they did wrong, according to the article, was that they kept Mexican authorities in the dark... and the decision was made by some guy named "Newel", who was the "special agent in charge of the Phoenix division".To hear Rusty tell it, Obama and Holder were briefed on the smallest details and signed off on every decision made.
I think that one of the commenters makes an important distinction. "Under Bush it was a joint venture with Mexico. Under Obama it was a DOJ venture. When There was a problem in the joint venture they stopped. Under Obama he armed the cartels in mexico without allowing mexico any part or imformation on what was happening. Holder and Obama lie about fast and furious and the only story is about a joint venture that fails. Where is the stories about Holders lies to congress. Where is the story about Holder telling the DOJ not to give imformation to congress as he is investaging himself."
What is Holder's (and Obama's) "lie"?Also, I mentioned that "important distinction" in my comment.
You don't think that Holder is lying?...Oh, wait a minute, I forgot, only Republicans lie and are devious masterminds.
I have not followed this story closely, so I don't know what you think he's lying about. That's why I asked you to clarify.
You don't know? I don't know how you can accuse someone of lying if you don't even know what the "lie" is.
From Politico - "Republican leaders in Congress have questioned Holder’s candor when he told a House hearing in May that he had “probably” first heard of the controversial investigation a few weeks earlier. However, documents the Justice Department provided to congressional investigators in recent days show that at least five memos sent to Holder beginning in July 2010 discussed the operation."
From CBS News - "New documents obtained by CBS News show Attorney General Eric Holder was sent briefings on the controversial Fast and Furious operation as far back as July 2010. That directly contradicts his statement to Congress."
And the main point, anyway, is that, under Bush, it was clearly a joint venture and considerably smaller in scope (there were, I believe, 10 times as many guns involved in Fast and Furious).
Maybe. I'm not a Holder fan anyway... he caved on trying KSM in NY (and civilian trials for other "unlawful combatants"), and (along with Obama I'm sure) declined to prosecute the bush war criminals. They let EVERYONE off the hook.The fast and furious thing certainly appears to be an F*ck up, but it isn't as if Holder and Obama personally planned the entire operation, is it? That's what Rusty would have everyone believe.It probably would have happened under McCain if he had been "elected" (Republican operatives had stolen enough votes and disenfranchised enough voters so that he was able to steal it).
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