Monday, January 9, 2012

To All of Those Who Want to Blame George Bush Solely for Solyndra, This

"The results of the Congressional probe shared Tuesday with ABC News show that less than two weeks before President Bush left office on January 9, 2009 the Energy Department's credit committee made a unanimous decision not to offer a loan commitment to Solyndra."......ABC News 9/13/11.............And this from Wikipedia - "The Department of Energy began evaluating Solyndra's application on January 9, 2009 and determined that the project had merit but that additional issues would need to be resolved before approval could be granted."

43 comments:

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Most of the Google hits a search for this story returns are in regards to those who wish to blame Barack Obama soley for Solyndra. That you're blogging about the exact opposite (and totally failing to talk at all about what the bush administration's role was) shows your bias.

You're a Conservative, which explains why you identify with the "No Labels" liars.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

I'm posting in response to articles by thinkprogress, etc. (I believe that you as well tried to spin it purely as a Bush debacle). Shameless idiots like that try to blame Bush for everything.......I'm a conservative? Whatever, wd.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Will: I believe that you as well tried to spin it purely as a Bush debacle.

No, I don't believe it's a "debacle" for either administration. Although most of the prep-work for giving them the loan took place under the bush administration.

Republicans are the ones saying this is a "debacle". They're implying crony capitalism by the Obama Administration and a ripoff perpetrated by Solyndra (it was a bad loan from the beginning and both sides knew it).

However, The REAL reason for Solyndra's failure is due to the fact that "the Chinese government is investing in solar production [and that] has led to a burst in production that has boosted supplies and forced down product prices worldwide". Turns out there is absolutely no scandal here what-so-ever, just a failure to accurately predict future market conditions.

The Solyndra "scandal" has been totally manufactured by Republicans. There is no scandal, except for the scandal of the Republicans trying to make political hay out of this.

Also, this is EXACTLY what all the ThinkProgress articles I've seen say... so I call you out for smearing them. It appears as though the only "crime" committed by ThinkProgress is being a Liberal organization... which is something that obviously chafes Will's hide.

Can't stand the fact that a Liberal organization is telling the truth about the bush administration's involvement with Solyndra, huh Will?

As for you being a Conservative... you admitted it when you identified with the Blue Dog Democrats. Although you then attempted to deny the well-known fact that Blue Dogs are Conservative (as if anyone would buy that).

Rusty Shackelford said...

Once again WD removes all doubt about his lack of business acumen.

He states the real reason for Solyndra's failure was due to the Chinese investing in solar panel construction thereby creating lower pricing.

If in fact Solyndra went ahead with a massive expansion of their facilities without any knowledge of what the market was for their product while approaching the Obama white house on numerous occasions with their onerous business plan,having this foolish bus trip accepted on the presidents behalf by Valerie Jarrett and walking out with 500 million tax payer dollars only proves both the Solyndra executives and Obama and his staff are either stupid or unethical...take your pick.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

The Chinese did not merely invest in solar panel construction! They flooded the market with cheap panels with the GOAL of destroying the competition. I presume Solyndra was not anticipating this (and why should they have?).

And Rusty's comment provides no evidence that Solyndra failed to do market research that would have alerted them to what the Chinese were up to. He makes an assumption (that Solyndra/The Obama Administration acted stupidly or unethically) based on nothing but his hatred for President Obama.

I think (at least part of) the blame for this lies with Congress. This is a blatantly unfair trading strategy and Chinese panels needed to have a huge tariff slapped on them. Although, that wouldn't help so far as the foreign market goes.

I think Rusty's comment underscores his total lack of understanding regarding the dangers of free trade and monopoly.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Rusty: Once again WD removes all doubt about his lack of business acumen.

According to ThinkProgress, "[In] November 2008: Silicon prices remain very high on the spot market, making non-silicon based thin film technologies like Solyndra's very attractive to investors. ...The company raises $144 million from ten different venture investors, including the Walton-family run Madrone Capital Partners. This brings total private investment to more than $450 million to date".

So, Rusty has the "business acumen" that all these investors lack? I mean, you don't turn over $450 million without doing your homework. Apparently even the Waltons lack this "business acumen" Rusty speaks of, making the continued success of Walmart a head scratcher.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

The bottom-line is the bottom-line, wd. The Bush administration's Department of Energy voted unanimously NO on the Solyndra loan question. It was the Obama administration that pushed forward with it and even did a bunch of frigging photo-ops. To try and lay all the blame on Bush is only something that a rump organization like thinkregress would do. Gee, let's see here, ABC News or thinkregress - that's a really tough one, wd. NOT!

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Will: The Bush administration's Department of Energy voted unanimously NO on the Solyndra loan question.

That isn't accurate according to ThinkProgress. They say what happened is, in January 2009, "in an effort to show it has done something to support renewable energy, the Bush Administration tries to take Solyndra before a DOE credit review committee before President Obama is inaugurated. The committee, consisting of career civil servants with financial expertise, remands the loan back to DOE without prejudice because it wasn't ready for conditional commitment".

That is nowhere near a straight up "no" as you are claiming.

Also, as reported by ThinkProgress... in September 2009, "Solyndra raises an additional $219 million. Shortly after, the DOE closes a $535 million loan guarantee after six months of due diligence".

Another 219 million raised by investors who lack business acumen? Or maybe investors thought this was a sound investment? I've seen no evidence present by Will or Rusty that proves either investors or the Obama DOE had any reason to think otherwise.

And THAT is the bottom line. WHERE IS YOUR PROOF that either the Obama DOE or the many investors screwed up when they didn't identify this venture as too risky to proceed???

Will: To try and lay all the blame on Bush is only something that a rump organization like thinkregress would do.

Wrong again. All ThinkProgres did is lay out the facts. Republicans are attempting to place all blame on the Obama Administration. ThinkProgress soundly refutes that assertion. I say it's highly partisan of you to label them a "rump organization" because you can't handle the truth.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

However, given the fact that ThinkProgress isn't a Moderate/Conservative lapdog, I'm not at all surprised by your mindless sliming of them.

Rusty Shackelford said...

After initial investors saw that Solyndra was a horrible investment after all they shut off the flow of capital.But no mind,the company had friends in the white house and after all the top three executive's at Solyndra were Obama supporter's who had pumped millions into his campaign.

All investors in Solyndra realized the company was doomed to failure....all except Valerie Jarrett and Obama.

If you want to dance,you eventually have to pay the band...thats exactly what the Obama administration did with Solyndra....but they used over 500 million dollars of tax payers money to do it.

Crony capitalism? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck,it usually is a duck.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

wd, the panel UNANIMOUSLY voted no. Thinkregress and you can spin it any way that you want but you cannot (though try I'm sure that you will) change the meaning of the term, unanimous. And I'm familiar with the time-line, Clyde. I don't need you or thinkregress to point it out to me. Yes, it started in the Bush administration, but it was the Obama administration who ultimately pulled the trigger and now we're out 535 million. Nice.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

From the AP 9/15/11. My advice to Mr. Obama would be to simply emulate Harry Truman and take full responsibility. Not that he necessarily listens to me, of course......."The Obama administration ignored repeated warnings about a clean-energy loan program that has become an embarrassment for the White House amid the collapse of a California solar energy company that received more than $500 million in federal loans.

At least three reports by federal watchdogs over the past two years warned that the Energy Department had not fully developed the controls needed to manage the multibillion-dollar loan program that provided more than $528 million to Solyndra Inc., a now-bankrupt solar panel manufacturer."

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

You're the one spinning Will. And either lying or too dumb to know the difference between a "unanimous no vote" and "remanding the loan back to DOE without prejudice".

Rusty Shackelford said...

WD,you're looking foolish again....just like you did with the Weiner issue.

When you're in a hole,stop digging.

Solyndra was a campaign pay back,nothing more...nothing less.

Just admit it and move on to something more worth while.

When you continue to quote far left sites you actually look dumber then you really are.You're a pretty smart guy,but when you put all your eggs in the ThinkProgress basket you come out on the other side looking like an ass.

Get a grip man.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Rusty: WD, you're looking foolish again.... Solyndra was a campaign pay back, nothing more... nothing less...

So I guess it should be any day now that Darrell Issa's Oversight committee produces the evidence they use to impeach Obama?

If that doesn't happen I'll consider Obama cleared. That is what dmarks and Will would argue. No charges means no crime.

Rusty: When you continue to quote far left sites...

Will was the one who brought ThinkProgress into the discussion! As far as me "quoting" them... I've only quoted their presentation of the facts, which neither you nor Will have refuted... or even disputed.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

"Unanimous no" was the way that ABC News characterized it, wd. ABC News - an ACTUAL news organization and NOT a spin machine like thinkregress and you.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

And I've never said that it was a crime, wd. I've simply underscored it as yet another example of governmental ineptitude, and of how the hard-core left tries to blame George Bush for literally EVERYTHING.......Obama OKed it and Obama did the photo-ops. I agree with Rusty on this one. Just stop digging, dude.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Will: "Unanimous no" was the way that ABC News characterized it.

Your argument is so effing lame it's unbelievable. The DOE loan committee, in remanding the loan back to the DOE without prejudice, was essentially saying that Solyndra didn't have all it's ducks in a row, but that they could come back when they did.

They straightened out whatever was wrong and the loan was approved. Just as it would have been under a McCain Administration (had he been elected president). Blaming Obama for this is just partisan politics.

Also, I finished digging for the truth and posted my findings on my blog more than three months ago. I concluded that both you and Rusty are full of shit.

ABC News, if you are quoting them correctly, is using imprecise language. And the "hard core" Lefties aren't blaming bush for this, just pointing out that it was HIS ADMINISTRATION that started the ball rolling (and I'm sure they would have approved it to had the clock not run out).

As for your "governmental ineptitude"... what about all the other investors who did their due diligence and invested a greater amount than the government loan? Unless you're arguing that programs like this shouldn't exist at all (and so far you have not)... I don't think you have a leg to stand on.

btw, if you do argue that, keep in mind that it was the bush administration that started this program! Personally I think it is Will and Rusty who are digging themselves in deeper here.

Rusty Shackelford said...

WD....since you have done all this investigative work could you please just answer these questions.

Did the Bush administration approve the Solyndra loan?

Whose administration approved the loan?

When was the loan approved?

When did Solyndra file for bankruptcy?

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

As for other people who idiotically invested in this venture, I could could give a rat's ass. I only care about the 535 million dollars in taxpayer money that got thrown down the rathole.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

You're ASSuming an awful lot there, wd. The bottom line remains. The Obama administration approved of the loan and it was them who ignored the warnings. "If I'm quoting them directly"? Really, you're taking that track again?

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

They straightened out what was wrong....ACCORDING TO YOU AND THINKREGRESS! Who's to say that a fresher set of eyes wouldn't have deciphered the matter differently (not to mentioned newer problems that might have also emerged). No, I didn't vote for McCain. I thought that he was far too unstable and hawkish in terms of foreign affairs. But who knows, maybe he would have been better at sniffing out wasteful spending than Obama. I don't know, I'm speculating. As are you.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Will: "Unanimous no" was the way that ABC News characterized it, wd. ABC News - an ACTUAL news organization and NOT a spin machine like thinkregress and you.

Is Politifact a "spin machine"? Politifact says, "House Republicans investigating Solyndra have claimed that the Bush administration ultimately rejected the Solyndra loan, but that's not quite the case. ...Bush energy officials wanted to get the loan closed on their way out the door -- it was listed as the first of their three highest priorities... but the Energy Department's credit committee held things up for more analysis".

According to Politifact the DOE said, "The number of issues unresolved makes a recommendation for approval premature at this time. Therefore, the committee, without prejudice, remands the project to the LGPO [Loan Guarantee Program Office] for further development of information... It noted Solyndra's project appears to have merit. But the clock had run out".

Wow, that's exactly what ThinkProgress said happened. I guess Politifact must be lying too? Damn those "rump organizations"!

Will: As for other people who idiotically invested in this venture, I could could give a rat's ass.

Also, I didn't say you should "care" about the other investors... my point in bringing them up was to show that others thought this was a good investment. People in the private sector... you know, the people you believe are SOOOOO much more competent.

btw, did you care about the hundreds of BILLIONS (not millions, as with Solyndra) that were "thrown down the rathole" in Iraq and Afghanistan (due to contractor waste and fraud)? There was a shitload of crony capitalism going on there.

I assume that really T'd you off, and if I go back and check your archives I'll find dozens of angry posts? For some reason I doubt it.

dmarks said...

Will: Are you of the opinion that the government has no business at all making such loans in the first place?

Rusty Shackelford said...

No dmarks,the government has absolutly no business picking winners or losers.The market should dictate who is successful and who is'nt.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Rusty: the government has absolutly no business picking winners or losers. The market should dictate who is successful and who isn't.

The program was started under the bush administration.

Rusty Shackelford said...

Unlike you WD...I dont give a flying F^*K who started it.

Let the market rule.If you can do it better,cheaper at a lower cost...you win.Its simple really.

Solyndra for example could'nt compete with their competition,so they should'nt be in business and they are'nt.Unfortunately their stupidity along with the idiots who gave them the loan cost tax payers over 500 million dollars.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

I have zero problem with what Politifact says. And I never said that the project didn't start under Bush. My point is that it was ULTIMATELY approved under Mr. Obama and that there were warnings that this was not a good investment (haven't read the Emails yet, huh?) which the administration failed to take into account. The buck stops with the President, wd. I mean, can you even begin to imagine Harry Truman trying blame FDR for something that went wrong during his administration.......As for the other people who invested and lost, people invest and lose DAILY. It's an entirely different matter when taxpayer dollars are squandered. You don't think so?

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

And, yes, I invite you to go back and look at my earlier posts. I think that you'll see that a great many of them are anti-Iraq War posts. In fact, it was one of the main reasons why I started blogging back then; the former President's overzealotry when it came to foreign policy.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

dmarks, yeah, I'm kind of with Rusty on this one. Let the market determine the winners and losers.......Now, this isn't to say that the government shouldn't play a role at all. One of the main reasons that T. Boone Pickens's wind strategy didn't pan out was because there weren't enough transmission lines. Government expenditures on that type of infrastructure I could definitely get behind. That and significantly more R&D.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

From the Washington Post - "Even as Obama declared that 'the future is here' during a May 2010 visit to Solyndra warning signs were being sent from within the government and from outside analysts who questioned the company’s viability.At least three reports by federal watchdogs over the past two years warned that the Energy Department had not fully developed the controls needed to manage the multibillion-dollar loan program." Harry Truman, your country needs you.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/solyndra-white-house-e-mails-show-ignored-warnings-about-loan-guarantee-risks/2011/09/16/gIQAvNsAYK_story.html

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Will [link to story]: Solyndra White House e-mails show ignored warnings about loan guarantee risk.

No, not exactly. Politifact says, "The idea of the loan guarantee program was to push technology from research and development into commercial production -- an inherently risky process. Energy Department officials questioned whether Solyndra had the cash to complete its factory project but concluded private investors would continue to bankroll the company".

Politifact concludes that, "those questions [regarding the risk] were answered by an official who argued investors would step in to protect the project — red flags, yes. But awareness in the White House the company would dissolve? No".

Will [quoting the Washington Post]: At least three reports by federal watchdogs over the past two years warned that the Energy Department had not fully developed the controls needed to manage the multibillion-dollar loan program.

Hmmm, I notice the reports don't predict the Chinese would dump subsidized solar panels on the market in a Walmart-like effort to destroy the competition... perhaps because NOBODY was anticipating that?

Also, in regards to Rusty's charge of crony capitalism, Politifact says, "information in the public record does not support the... claim that the Obama White House is a pay-to-play cash machine for the politically well-connected. We rate this... claim Mostly False".

I have no doubt Rusty and Will are going to keep digging though.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Will Hart = The "mostly false" blogger.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

No, wd, they don't mention the Chinese. They had problems with the deal even absent that. Face it, wd, Obama (him and his dogmatic green agenda) stuck his nose into the private sector and the taxpayers are out 535 million because of it. Yes, McCain may have made the same mistake but that's irrelevant. The buck stops with the President. Stop spinning for him. All that that does is make the both of you look pathetic.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Will: No, wd, they don't mention the Chinese. They had problems with the deal even absent that.

Huh? I read what you typed in your previous comment... and it doesn't say that. You said the watchdogs, "warned that the Energy Department had not fully developed the controls needed to manage the multibillion-dollar loan program."

That's a comment on the program in general, not on any specific loan. Who's spinning now?

Is Politifact a "rump" organization? I'm quoting them... so if I'm "spinning" they must be "spinning" too.

And, as I pointed out earlier, the program BEGAN (the entire loan program, that is) under bush. Did bush "stick his nose in the private sector"?

Me, I'd say this is one thing bush got right. Government can't "stick it's nose" in the private sector as far as I'm concerned... regulating and guiding the economy is the DUTY of our government. If it is "sticking it's nose" then I say it's sticking it's nose WHERE IT BELONGS.

Will: Stop spinning for him. All that that does is make the both of you look pathetic.

I think you should stop spinning because it's making you look pathetic. You're so desperate to bash Obama on this that you're completely ignoring the facts... and saying we should heap on the blame simply because he's president! That's mighty pathetic, IMHO.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

I gave you a direct quote from the Washington Post, you idiot. And, yes, Bush absolutely WAS sticking his nose in the private sector - on this and many other ventures. But AGAIN, the Solyndra loan was ULTIMATELY approved by Obama and it was his administration that missed the warning signs that the Washington Post described. How in the fuck is that frigging spinning?

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

Will: I gave you a direct quote from the Washington Post... Obama... missed the warning signs that the Washington Post described.

I don't see, in your "direct quote", that the Washington Post said there were "warning signs" in regards to the Solyndra loan specifically. Their warning signs were in regards to the program in general...

...which actually, is doing quite well. The Solyndra loan is the only one that didn't pan out. IMO you don't know what the hell you're talking about.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Wrong again, wd - "warning signs were being sent from within the government and from outside analysts who questioned the company’s viability." The warnings WERE specific to Solyndra.............And another 3 BILLION wasted on the Chevy Volt. I mean, I know that you probably don't pay taxes, wd, but, fella', the carnage is really starting to add up.

The Honorable, Esteemed And Distinguished Judge Dervish Sanders (A High IQ Individual) said...

OK, I should have re-read your comment. I was responding to the last part of the quote, "At least three reports by federal watchdogs over the past two years warned that the Energy Department had not fully developed the controls needed to manage the multibillion-dollar loan program".

Not "wrong again" though... wrong for the first time.

In response to the first part of the quote I say... the White House disagreed with those watchdog organizations. And, according to Politifact the warnings were "red flags", "But [NOT an] awareness in the White House the company would dissolve".

So they made a bad decision, but no more so then the other investors. Other investors who did their due diligence and decided Solyndra was a good bet.

This is a far cry from the crony capitalism you and Rusty are asserting. I just don't think this is as big a deal as you do. Which is why I asked you about the hundreds of billions lost to crony capitalism (not millions as with Solyndra) due to contractor fraud in Iraq...

...but you refused to answer (or misunderstood my question)... and responded with a general statement of your disapproval for the war.

Rusty Shackelford said...

Solyndra may very well be the tip of the iceberg.

CBS news reported there are other shakey Obama administration investments that total well over a few billion dollars.This may get very interesting.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

wd, I invited you to read my blogs from 2007 and 2008. No, I don't believe that I specifically addressed fraud in my postings but the fact that I didn't think that we should have been there PERIOD should have dang covered me.............And I didn't say that Solyndra was an example of crony capitalism (there are clearly more obvious examples of crony capitalism in the stimulus package), just a rotten investment that caused us 535 million dollars.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

I hope that CBS News is wrong, Russ. I suspect that they're not. Propublica also has some very good examples of stimulus waste and fraud in the stimulus package. You might want to check that out.