Monday, August 27, 2012

Please

Show me where in the Tax Policy Center's study on Romney's budget in which they DO include interest on tax exempt bonds and interest on life insurance savings as a part of their analysis. If somebody can provide me evidence which shows that the authors also crunched the numbers utilizing this scenario and it still shows that the Romney budget "doesn't add up", I will happily stand down. And I thank you for your time.

20 comments:

w-dervish said...

In other words, "I'm right unless you prove me wrong. I don't have to prove myself right".

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

I went through it line by line and found no evidence whatsoever that these authors included municipal bond interest and/or interest from life insurance savings as a part of their analysis. They ignored it and thus they ASSume that Mr. Romney would never include it in his doing away of loopholes.

w-dervish said...

Will: They ignored it and thus they ASSume that Mr. Romney would never include it in his doing away of loopholes.

You did a very bad job going through it "line by line" because it is in there. They didn't ignore it.

Quote: "Our major conclusion is that a revenue-neutral individual income tax change that incorporates the features Governor Romney has proposed... maintaining all tax breaks for saving and investment... would... increase the tax burdens on middle- and/or lower-income taxpayers".

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Sorry, wd (you won't take the AEI's word for it but I'm supposed to take the Tax Policy Center's word?), but Mr. Romney hasn't proposed a specific budget and show me where in the data that these authors specifically included municipal bond and insurance savings interest. THEY DIDN'T, because, if they had included it, the amount of the deductions would have been significantly greater.

w-dervish said...

Will: THEY DIDN'T, because, if they had included it, the amount of the deductions would have been significantly greater.

They did. I just showed you that they did!!

Will: ...you won't take the AEI's word for it but I'm supposed to take the Tax Policy Center's word?

I didn't read anything about this from AEI, I only know what you say they said. If they said it they're wrong. And, regarding the TPC report, what you're basically saying is, "I don't like their conclusions so I'll just say they're lying".

Also, no surprise that you'd believe the Conservative AEI and discount the centrist TPC. Another of Will's many Conservative positions.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Thanks for the link, wd - “Off the table”: (Savings and Investment)
Preferential rate on capital gains and dividends
Exclusion of interest on tax exempt municipal bonds
Deduction for HSA Contributions from taxed income
KEOGH, SEP, & Simple Contribution Deduction
Penalty on Early Withdrawal of Savings
Self-Employment IRA Deduction
Investment Interest
Saver’s Credit
Capital gains exclusion on home sales
Step-up basis of capital gains at death

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

And the Brookings Institution is a left-leaning think tank by anybody's (save for yours, of course) standards. Yes, they have some neoliberals who agreed with Bush's adventurism but on the economy to call them centrist is lunacy.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

"I only know what you say they said." What are you fucking saying, that I made it up? I gave you the fucking link and provided a direct quote. You really need to learn to be a little more careful with your accusations.

w-dervish said...

And the Brookings Institution is a left-leaning think tank by anybody's (save for yours, of course) standards.

False. I looked to how others described Brookings before concluding they are centrist. Brookings describes itself as independent and non-partisan. The progressive organization FAIR says Brookings is Conservative. Being progressive, I think FAIR is a good judge of who else is progressive.

Will: What are you fucking saying, that I made it up?

You need to calm down dude. I only meant I didn't read what AEI said. I made no "accusations".

dmarks said...

FAIR is hard left. They tend to call leftists which stand in the place between them am the center as 'conservative'. Brookings is an example of this.

Wd and FAIR are both measuring from deep in the left wing as the 'center', and that is false.

w-dervish said...

dmarks: Wd and FAIR are both measuring from deep in the left wing as the 'center', and that is false.

dmarks is measuring from deep in the right wing as the "center". What he says about me is false. I recgonize and identified FAIR as left of center. I did not claim they were centrist.

Brookings and the TPC are examples of centrist organizations. That is, if you measure from the acutal center, which dmarks does not.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Brookings tilts left, AEI tilts right. And neither is extremist.......And what about it, wd? It appears that the Tax Policy Center DIDN'T include municipal bond and life insurance savings interest in any of their calculations (this, according to the link that you yourself provided) and that the AEI, Wall Street Journal, and Manhattan Institute criticisms were pretty much spot-on after all. Yay, huh?

dmarks said...

WD said: "dmarks is measuring from deep in the right wing as the "center". What he says about me is false. I recgonize and identified FAIR as left of center. I did not claim they were centrist."

I stand by my record. I measure from the actual political center, and know that it is to the left of me. I have no problems with that. You will find no examples of my mis-identifying anyone as to being left or right. That is a problem I don't have.

Recognizing that FAIR is a leftist political pressure group is a good start. Refusing to recognize that Brookings/TCP are also leftist pressure groups (but less left-wing than FAIR) is a failing on your part.

Will said: "Brookings tilts left, AEI tilts right. And neither is extremist."

Yes. That is why I use such terms as "strongly left", "hard right" etc. Actual extremists are quite simply not present in the political debate.

dmarks said...

WD said: "What he says about me is false. I recgonize and identified FAIR as left of center."

I know. I never said this. I was referring to how FAIR itself makes up on the fly its own definition of "center", just as you do.

w-dervish said...

Will: ...the AEI, Wall Street Journal, and Manhattan Institute criticisms were pretty much spot-on after all. Yay, huh?

Not at all. They included these things in their analysis. Their analysis concluded they would remain as is because going after them would be politically untenable.

Brookings is centrist, AEI tilts right.

w-dervish said...

dmarks: I never said this. I was referring to how FAIR itself makes up on the fly its own definition of "center", just as you do.

That is exactly what you said. As for making up on the fly a definition of "center"... No. I see zero evidence of this.

All the evidence says dmarks has his own definition of the center, and it is far further to the right than the actual center.

This explains why he thinks there are many Republicans in the center (when there are not), and there are no radical Republicans in Congress (when there are many). It also explains why he thinks Bill Clinton and Barack Obama are "Liberals" (when they are clearly not).

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

OFF THE TABLE!!!!!!!! The didn't include it. Do you simply not know what OFF THE TABLE means?: (Savings and Investment)
Preferential rate on capital gains and dividends
Exclusion of interest on tax exempt municipal bonds
Deduction for HSA Contributions from taxed income
KEOGH, SEP, & Simple Contribution Deduction
Penalty on Early Withdrawal of Savings
Self-Employment IRA Deduction
Investment Interest
Saver’s Credit
Capital gains exclusion on home sales
Step-up basis of capital gains at death

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

They included them in their analysis by deciding to not include them in their analysis? Come on, wd. They failed to factor these 2 things in their computation because they ASSumed that Mr. Romney wouldn't touch them. Mr. Romney has never said that he wouldn't include them as a part of his proposal. I will grant you that Mr. Romney has to a certain degree brought this on to himself by not being specific but you have to at least admit here that off the table mean off the table.

dmarks said...

Measured from the center, wd, Clinton and Obama are left/liberal. You are only proving your ignorance of the subject. And letting your own bias color your statements.

dmarks said...

I already pointed that out to him, Will. In response, wd, He made up something on the spot (absolutely without any evidence or support) that these Democrats that the left-wing Brookings Institution and TPC are donating to are all moderates.