Tuesday, July 5, 2011
We Need to Close More Than Loopholes
If the progressives want to eliminate all corporate tax loopholes (or try to anyway - I'm sure that the tax attorneys are already one step ahead of them), I say fine. Have at it, big fellows. But, if they end up closing all of the corporate tax loopholes AND keep the top corporate tax rate at 35%, that I think would be very disastrous. The rest of the world is reducing their corporate income tax, and if we don't at least try and keep up with them, not only will our corporations continue to outsource, they'll possibly move their entire operations overseas. It's a little something called the law of unintended consequences, people.
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26 comments:
What do you want, Will, for the US to have the lowest corporate tax rate instead of just the second lowest?
Republicans & Moderates = Corporate socialists
This post = Will's corporatist agenda
I've always suspected Will of being a corporatist whoremonger WD. Now we have proof from his own keyboard.
Don't try to deny it Will. You're a slave to the Koch Bros.
Well Jerry I'm sure everyone would take an article from Thinkprogress plus a much respected and well known "Center for Tax Justice" as absolute undeniable fact.I mean they are after all comparing tax to GDP...a formula I'm guessing they may have made up themselves.
Jery,you should consider slithering back to Sue's echo chamber with that stupid shit and take the guy in the Hunter Thopmson costume with you.
W-dervish said: "Republicans & Moderates = Corporate socialists"
Well, I know many Republicans. I have yet to meet one who is a corporate socialist.
Sometimes I don't think that you guys (wd, Jerry, Truth) actually read my words. I said that if, IF, all corporate tax loopholes are eliminated (and I'm not necessarily opposed to that) AND you leave the top corporate rate at 35%, then THAT would be disastrous. You disagree?
I mean, why would you want American companies to be at a competitive disadvantage? That makes absolutely no sense at all. And, yes, Jerry, I understand, a lot of the bigger corporations like Microsoft and Google don't actually pay the 35%. That point isn't in dispute here.............But, if you think about it, when you look at the way that Bill Gates and Warren Buffett spend their money and compare it to the way that the Federal government spends our hard-earned tax dollars, then, yeah, maybe it's kind of a good thing that they do off-shore some of it.............And if I had to choose between corporations making money and losing money, I would much prefer that they make money. I mean, come on, do we really want another pre-bailout Ford Motor Corporation on our hands?
Will: Maybe there are some here who think that running industrial operations like Ford should only be the privilege of our ruling elites.
Options, Will. Options. Lets close the loopholes and see what happens. You might be surprised.
Don't confuse their personal money with their corporate earnings. They are different money taxed at different rates.
Jerry, you're a good guy whose contributions are welcome. Like, I said in a previous thread, the American Eagle needs both of it's wings to fly (me - consider me the breastbone). As for the topic here, I would probably go with a) close the loopholes and b) reduce the rate to 25%. That way we'll get the duel effect of increasing (or at least maintaining) revenue AND enhancing competitiveness.
dmarks, I suspect that wd would like the Federal government to run quite a number of things; healthcare, oil, autos, etc..
dmarks, I suspect .... here we see willy, impersonating rusty, reaching up his factiod region for pure opinion he poses as fact.
Actually he does this quite regularly, and almost always using right wing opinions as his factiods.
Anon said: "dmarks, I suspect .... here we see willy,"
Looks like an attempt to fake a quote from me. I wonder if this is the same Anon who likes to lie about Sarah Palin?
"Actually he does this quite regularly, and almost always using right wing opinions as his factiods."
I don't know about Rusty (never having had a discussion with him), but Will and I tend to stick to the facts, and give no regard to "right wing opinions".
Will I know you're not a "corporatist"...with that said it does piss me off the way some Corporations behave...Marginal and Corporate tax rates are the lowest since WWII...in spite of that, the jobs still went overseas. I thought I read somewhere that 2 years ago, Exxon/Mobil got a $150 Million REFUND after making profits in the BILLIONS. If you look at the statutory taxs rates versus the compliance rates of some these guys it makes you wonder...With all that said, I agree lowwer the rate by 10%, but close ALL, ALL loop holes...no exceptions. For good measure, maybe some of these CEOs with the mega stock options ought get nailed. If they create jobs or keep them here, lowwer their capital gains by 10%...if on the other hand they offshore, raise their rate by 30%...
Will: I suspect that wd would like the Federal government to run quite a number of things; healthcare, oil, autos, etc..
I don't want the government to run any of those things.
Under single payer the government would "run" health care INSURANCE, not health care. The government wouldn't own all the hospitals and pay all the doctors and nurses.
A national oil company that drilled for oil on federal lands and used that money to fund government activities... I think that would be a good idea... but private oil companies could still drill for oil on privately owned lands (provided they adhered to all government regulations, which I would strictly enforce).
The government shouldn't be running any auto companies. I was not opposed to the bailout, however.
I support socialism for the people and oppose it for corporations (unlike Will). I also believe we should place more power in the hands of the people instead of the wealthy elites (unlike dmarks).
BTW, corporations aren't outsourcing due to the "high corporate tax rate" (which Jerry accurately points out isn't that high). They are outsourcing to countries where they don't have to follow environmental and safety regulations... lead paint in toys and dog food that killed our pets... hello?
Reason 2 would be workers who toil for pennies a day. Lowering our corporate income tax isn't going to bring manufacturing back to the US (in any big way). What we need to do is withdraw from the WTO and institute higher tariffs.
Gee! w-d sounds pretty moderate to me. Nothing radical about his suggestions/ideas.
"I support socialism for the people"
Yes, the few ruling elites. Those are the people who benefit from socialism the most, as under socialism the top few amass more and more power. It's the ideology of Gadhaffi, Assad, etc. It's fascist in every sense of the word, except according to some dictionaries which require this tyranny to be "right-wing" somehow.
The idea of supporting this brutal and failed ideology IS rather radical.
"Reason 2 would be workers who toil for pennies a day."
Which countries is wd referring to?
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"What we need to do is withdraw from the WTO and institute higher tariffs."
We need zero tariffs. Tariffs are an unneeded tax, regressive in every since of the word, in which the greedy ruling class punishes people for making informed economic decisions. Say no to greed: oppose all tariffs.
LOL! I think you have it backwards, dmarks. Just what liberal, socialist policies have caused the concentration of wealth and power in the "ruling elites" that the US has experienced over the last 30 years? And just how have those policies done that?
Here. Let me help you. Here is a list of 150 programs, legislation, and achievements that we would not have if extreme right wingers had their way.
dmarks: Which countries is wd referring to?
You haven't heard that workers in other countries are paid significantly less than American workers? If you really are that ignorant regarding this topic why are you participating in the discussion?
Zero tariffs dmarks? dmarks must have inherited his money and never worked for a living. How else can one explain why he wants American workers to compete with workers in the lowest-wage countries in the world?
No wonder he hates union members so much. They DARE to ask for more than the pennies a day dmarks thinks they should be working for.
WD said: "You haven't heard that workers in other countries are paid significantly less than American workers?"
You said pennies per day ("Reason 2 would be workers who toil for pennies a day.'). Workers in China make several dollars, at least. Dollars, not pennies. Mexican assembly workers get from $30 to $40 a day. Far more than pennies. So which country is it where workers toil for a fraction of this for US exports?
"If you really are that ignorant regarding this topic why are you participating in the discussion?"
If anything is ignorant, it is you tossing out the "pennies per day" figure without any thought to it.
"Zero tariffs dmarks? dmarks must have inherited his money and never worked for a living."
No, I work for my living and want to spend my money wisely. Not how Washington wants it spent.
If you don't like foreign products, fine, don't buy them. But don't force your choice on others.
"How else can one explain why he wants American workers to compete with workers in the lowest-wage countries in the world?"
OK, some facts please. Which countries have the lowest wages in the world? And how much imports do we get from them?
"No wonder he hates union members so much."
No, I respect union members more than you: I want them to have a choice in membership. You strongly oppose that.
Shantytowns and families living in their cars... the middle class virtually eliminated... American workers toiling for 4000 pennies a day (or much much less)... CEO salaries going from hundreds or thousands of times more than the average worker to tens or hundreds of thousands of times more... Sham elections where the corporations basically buy the politicians they want...
This is the future dmarks envisions for America.
You can count me as being NOT on board.
I'm not on board either. Because that is not the future I envision, or have advocated in any way. None of what you describe fits anything I advocate.
By the way, I am still waiting for figures on US imports from countries that pay workers only pennies (an amount less than one dollar?) per day.
You think Americans could survive if their wages were lowered so they could "compete" with the workers in the lowest wage countries in the world?
I don't know how you can say you aren't on board with the vision of America I laid out.
This is EXACTLY what would happen if your suggestions on how the economy should be run were fully implemented.
dmarks: I am still waiting for [info on] workers [making] only pennies (an amount less than one dollar?) per day.
A 10/29/2003 Baltimore Chronicle article says, "thousands [of] jobs are being... outsourced to India, Hong Kong, Peoples Republic of China, Panama, Manila, The Philippines; and many other countries where the local citizens speak English.
Jobs are moving offshore to any country where the populace is accustomed to working for pennies a day. Any sum above a dollar in many cases, is the beginning to middle-class wealth and vast change of lifestyle".
My man WD is thumping you Dmarks. Why do you want more poor people anyway dude?
Henry Ford wanted his employees to be able to afford his cars. I guess as long as you're comfy the rest of us don't matter. Typical right winger.
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