Saturday, December 17, 2011

......AND Widens

"The consequences of the Hawley-Smoot Bill have been tremendous (as in, terrible), both directly and indirectly."............Franklin Delano Roosevelt 1932.............Wow, I guess that FDR thought that Smoot-Hawley was contributing to the economic downturn, too. How inconvenient. Oh well, I guess that FDR was just being one of those "useful idiots" for right-wing propaganda (not that this is necessarily surprising, mind you, in that the Republican Party was the true party of Progressives back then; T.R., LaFollette, Hoover, Charles Evans Hughes, etc.).

14 comments:

Jerry Critter said...

I suspect a lot of FDR's objection to the bill was political. After all, the bill was sponsored by two republican senators and signed by a republican president over two years before FDR became president.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

And I suspect that you may be on to something there, Jerry.

Jerry Critter said...

It is interesting how much the republican party has changed in the last 80 years. I can't imagine them proposing similar legislation now days.

dmarks said...

In this aspect, at least, the party is a lot smarter than those who still insist on such policies, which have been relegated to the Pat Buchanan nonsense wing.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

I try to be open-minded but on this issue I tend to come down on the side of free trade. It's kind of like what Milton Friedman said. You easily see the benefits of protectionism, but the negative aspects tend to be more insidious.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

And even a country like China, a country that I wouldn't mind all that much punishing - the fact that they own so much of our present obligations......

w-dervish said...

It's a conservative myth TODAY. You saying that because I'm calling it a conservative myth today... that means I'm saying it was a conservative myth from day one is BEYOND RIDICULOUS.

More utter BS is you continuing to call this a "conspiracy". Most who believe the nonsense about Smoot Hawley contributing to the Great Depression are simply wrong... and not contributing to a "conspiracy" to spread this erroneous information. God, what a dope!

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

It wasn't a conservative myth then OR now, wd. There are people from across the political spectrum who favor free trade. And there are people from across the political spectrum who oppose it. And just because people disagree with you, doesn't necessarily mean that they're wrong. It just means that they disagree with you. These, wd, are only perspectives, and this constant insistence of yours that your perspective must reign supreme, simply because it happens to be YOUR perspective, a) is childish and b) shows an unprecedented lack of understanding on the limitations of human knowledge. You really need to approach issues more thoughtfully and skeptically in the future (if, that is, you really and truly wish to grow).

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Take, for instance, Milton Friedman, a conservative AND a free-trader. He actually agrees with you that Smoot-Hawley (while it certainly didn't help) probably had a marginal effect at best on the economy. He sees the Depression more as the function of idiotic monetary policy by the FED; the fact that they shrank the money supply by nearly a third and and that that this in fact caused the bank-runs/closings.

w-dervish said...

Will: ...just because people disagree with you, doesn't necessarily mean that they're wrong.

The problem with this kind of thinking is that we need to actually decide on a course of action. That is, make a decision and do that.

That's what I'm doing... and I'm sure that is what you would do (if you were in a decision making position)... so you can stuff this holier-than-thou BS about how you are so much more mature than me.

btw, I'm under no illusions that my perspective will "reign supreme", because, as you point out, this Conservative free trade nonsense has infected the Democratic Party.

dmarks said...

Its not "nonsense". It makes great sense to let the American people make their own trade decisions, instead of have these decisions forced on everyone by the government.

It's not so much a conservative idea, as it is a damn good idea. As for 'infection', it's more an infection of common sense.

Jerry Critter said...

Letting the "American people make their own trade decisions" would make more sense if we had a robust economy and a strong middle class. Then American people could make their decision in the marketplace. As it is now, many people, if not most, are struggling to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table and are forced to buy the cheapest product, rather than the American made product.

dmarks said...

It's not a matter of "force", but of the prudence of choosing the best deal. The best product for the best price, without thinking of fears of evil foreign workers.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

It hasn't infected the Democratic Party, wd (and, here, again, your woeful knowledge of American history is apparent). Free Trade has LONG been a staple of the Democratic platform; From Wilson to Clinton. If anybody at all got "infected" here, it was the Republican Party.