Thursday, December 22, 2011

"Alan Keyes Is Making Sense"

What would be my answer to the question, "So, what, in your opinion, is the most inappropriately titled program in television history?"

25 comments:

Ema Nymton said...

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Murdoch Media's 'Fox "News" Network'.

Nyuk nyuk nyuk.

Too easy ...

Ema Nymton
~@:o?
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dmarks said...

Ema said: "Murdoch Media's 'Fox News Network'.

Sorry, Ema. Just because something doesn't meet your very strict ideological viewpoint doesn't mean it is not news. Yours comment is just one of many. I say the same thing to those on the Right who hate MSNBC and CNN because they are leftist.

Unlike you and them, I respect the letter and the spirit of the First Amendment. I WANT to have a news environment with Fox News, MSNBC, Democracy Now, Limbaugh, FAIR, Counterpunch, Pacifica, NPR, and the rest of it, and I respect all of them, and I am mature enough to know that all of them are news. No quotes necessary.

--------------

Will: I see coming from the Left that betray contempt for journalism and a free press.

Will: How about this one? "Both Sides with Jesse Jackson".

Rational Nation USA said...

Emma, what a beautiful testimony to the the left's {your} ignorance of the real meaning of a free press.

One can easily imagine you as "Propagandist in Chief" or the "Minister of Information."

Too easy Emma... Nyuk, Nyuk, Nyuk

Rational Nation USA said...

dmarks - It has been said, I may not agree with you But I'll fight to the death defending your right to day it.

Too bad there are so many on the left and the right that fail to "get it."

Ema Nymton said...

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"what, in your opinion, is the most inappropriately titled program in television history?"

If I had known I was dealing with mental deficients who had problems focusing on the issues then maybe I'd have typed more slowly so you would not have gone off into stupid-land.

Pointing out the FACT that Murdoch Media's 'Fox "News" Network' is inappropriate does not betray anything.

"My ideological viewpoint"?!? Really? Are you having problems with focusing on the question?? Why do _YOU_ bring in your fixation other networks to this discussion?

Hello?

FOCUS on the question. Free Press? How in the world did you get lost in the turns on this straight away?

Ema Nymton
~@:o?
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Rational Nation USA said...

Thank's for that enlightened view my dear. Of course you would be right. Forgive me my ineptitude in circumventing the obvious.

Since you so delicately pointed it out you now leave me no choice but to come clean. Forgive me my honesty. MSNBC.

w-dervish said...

Jeez, Will asks for people's OPINION, and dmarks and "Rational" Nation (The internet's most inappropriately named blogger) jump to irrational conclusions about Ema Nymton wanting to abolish the freedom of the media?

Give me a break. I'm with Ema on this one, Fox Nooz, while it many contain a small amount of actual news, is really just the GOP's propaganda machine. The same canNOT be said of MSNBC in my opinion.

Neither I, nor Emma (I would confidently guess) are against Fox Nooz existing... contrary to dmarks' outrageous and ridiculous lies concerning the Left's "contempt for journalism and a free press".

"Rational" Nation: Forgive me my honesty. MSNBC.

You're saying "MSNBC" is inappropriately titled? How so? Do you think MSNBC is propaganda (the same charge I made against Fox)?

But, MSNBC is a joint venture between Microsoft and NBC (The National Broadcasting Company). The "N" doesn't stand for "news" (even though it IS a news channel)...

Looks to me like "Rational" Nation swings... and misses! Better luck next time, "Rational".

dmarks said...

"Pointing out the FACT that Murdoch Media's 'Fox News Network' is inappropriate does not betray anything."

Actually, that is just an opinion. One that is shared by few, and even fewer who are understanding of the concept of a free press and an unfettered independent media. Your opinion is no more "Fact" than that of someone who says that MSNBC is inappropriate.

Rational said "dmarks - It has been said, I may not agree with you But I'll fight to the death defending your right to day it."

Great sentiment. I only wish there were more of us here who respect open expression.

WD said: "Give me a break. I'm with Ema on this one, [Fox News], while it many contain a small amount of actual news, is really just the GOP's propaganda machine."

Actually, it is all news. However, you subjectively have chosen to lie and label the news which you don't like as "propaganda". Such mis-labelling and contempt of the free flow of information is often the first step toward outright censorship.

I've had lengthy discussions with some on the Left who make the bogus "propaganda" claim and use it as a basis to demand censoring Fox News.

Want to get people who hate a free press in a tizzy? Watch Fox News.

"contrary to dmarks' outrageous and ridiculous lies concerning the Left's "contempt for journalism and a free press".

Actually, I was being quite factual. The largest threat to uncensored media is the "Fairness Doctrine", whereby the government censors anything that the censors consider to be "unfair"... in direct violation of the First Amendment. Many on the Left support it.

This situation actually exists, so my pointing out the fact of this is not a "ridiculous lie".

Rational Nation USA said...

wd - Coming from you (RN the most inappropriately named blogger)really serves to verify the absolute truth of my rational and objective viewpoints.

Merry Christmas wd. A Happy and Prosperous New Year as well.

Rational Nation USA said...

dmarks -not sure exactly who you are including in the following satement:

"Great sentiment. I only wish there were more of us here who respect open expression."

Specificity has it's merits.

w-dervish said...

dmarks: Actually, I was being quite factual.

I don't support reinstating the Fairness Doctrine. President Obama doesn't want to bring back the Fairness Doctrine, despite what Fox Nooz (and perhaps dmarks) say.

dmarks: Actually, [Fox Nooz] is all news...

This is a joke, right? Unfortunately I think dmarks really believes this. This is a prime example of why nobody should take anything dmarks says seriously. He's totally oblivious to how laughably ridiculous comments like this are.

dmarks: However, you subjectively have chosen to lie and label the news which you don't like as "propaganda".

Wrong. Fox Nooz (along with MSNBC) consists of a lot of opinion and commentary. Opinion isn't "news".

I don't think Will would agree either. At least I have a hard time believing Will would say Keith Olbermann's "worst person" segment is "news".

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Ema, dmarks, Les, wd - I don't think that I'd be giving out any trade secrets here if I just came out and said that Fox favors the right and MSNBC favors the left. I would just additionally say/caution that it probably isn't a good idea to collectively condemn everybody who works at these networks. Yes, Ed Schultz and Sean Hannity are stoogely partisans. But that shouldn't in any way justify us also taking down Shepard Smith, Andrea Mitchell, Ed Henry, and Chuck Todd in the process. That would be totally wrong, IMO.

Rational Nation USA said...

wd - The news is reported by humans, humans are biased. All of them. The best and most objective can and are influenced by thier individual biases. Even you wd.

Which is why it is important there are multitudes of news sources. Anyone who respects the 1'st amendment welcomes the diversity of news outlets. That includes the various opinion segment hosts.

As to the Fairness Doctrine I believe you err. But I'll check the Administration's position again.

dmarks said...

Will said: "I don't think that I'd be giving out any trade secrets here if I just came out and said that Fox favors the right and MSNBC favors the left."

Exactly. And none of this detracts from either being news. Though it does get some in a tizzy and cause them to tar the side that doesn't match their ideologial purity requirements with the meaningless "propaganda" insult.

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WD said: "President Obama doesn't want to bring back the Fairness Doctrine, despite what Fox News (and perhaps dmarks) say."

I am not aware of Fox News' reporting on this. However, there are several Democrats in Congress who are pushing to bring back this censorship.

And I was being factual. Fox News is news. Unlike you, I don't lie about news organizations and make up playground insults for them just because they dare to report stuff that I don't want said.

dmarks: Actually, [Fox Nooz] is all news...

"This is a joke, right?"

At which point you engaged in several insults, but provided noting to prove your supposed points.

"Wrong. Fox Nooz (along with MSNBC) consists of a lot of opinion and commentary. Opinion isn't "news"."

If what you say is true, then there is no news at all. As Rational rationally reminded us, there's bias in everything.

"At least I have a hard time believing Will would say Keith Olbermann's "worst person" segment is "news"."

It's news, but rather low quality news. Olbermann comes off as a petty blowhard with this segment when he reports that someone is the worst person in the world just because he beats Olbermann in TV ratings.

Ema Nymton said...

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w-dervish,

"This is a prime example of why nobody should take anything dmarks says seriously. He's totally oblivious to how laughably ridiculous comments like this are."

Ka-ching!!!! Focusing on single issues do seem to present many here REAL problems, not just dmarks. This is a reason one like to come and laugh at them.

Ema Nymton
~@:o?
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Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Here's the way that I see it, folks. Shepard Smith (Fox) and Chris Jansing (MSNBC and reeeoooow) basically give us straight news, Ed Schultz and Sean Hannity propaganda. It's essentially that straight forward to me.

w-dervish said...

Will: ...Shepard Smith (Fox) and Chris Jansing... basically give us straight news... Ed Schultz and Sean Hannity propaganda. It's... that straight forward to me.

On behalf of dmarks let me say SHAME on you Will... for lying about news organizations and using playground insults against them just because they dare to report stuff you don't want said.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

People see the world differently sometimes, wd. dmarks referred to it as "low quality news", I referred to it as "propaganda". I respect his opinion, he respects mine (I think).

w-dervish said...

dmarks said me calling Fox Nooz "propaganda" was a "playground insult" (and he also said I "lied")...

...but when you use the SAME word, it's a "respected differing opinion"? Also, with you it isn't lying, but just a case of you "seeing the word differently"?

I guess that could be the case, if dmarks is a hypocrite (which would not surprise me). Or it could be a case of you two bending over backward to kiss each outher's butts. That happens quite frequently.

dmarks: If what you say is true, then there is no news at all.

These types of programs offer opinion and commentary on the news. And they are the reason the term "pundit" was invented. Because they are NOT straight news programs.

But it looks like I've found another word that dmarks thinks should not exist (like "wage slave"). Thanks for enlightening me dmarks... before today I had no idea there were people out there who were so dumb that they didn't know the difference between the news and someone's opinion on the news.

btw, Fox Nooz is propaganda. This has nothing to do with my wanting to fling a "playground insult their way"... it's because they lie, which is a well-documented fact... in Robert Greenwald's excellent documentary Outfoxed (for instance).

Interviewed for the documentary, former Fox News anchor Jon Du Pre says, "We weren't necessarily, as it was TOLD TO US, a news gathering organization, so much as we were a proponent of a point of view" (This is a direct quote from the 7:38 in the documentary).

Fox Nooz isn't (by and large) news. It's the propaganda arm of the GOP. Which, by the way was the original name proposed by Roger Ailes... GOP TV>.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

I can't speak for dmarks, but maybe he was referring to the fact that you were condemning ALL of Fox, and not just individual antagonists like Hannity. That would be my guess.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Dude, I challenge you. Watch Harris Faulkner's weekend show (7 PM) and compare that to what you hear EVERY NIGHT coming out of Matthews's mouth (he actually said that Newt Gingrich looked like a car-bomber). It isn't anywhere near the black and white scenario that you're peddling.

dmarks said...

"I guess that could be the case, if dmarks is a hypocrite (which would not surprise me)"

No, I am being consistent. I judge all news organizations the same.

"it's because they lie, which is a well-documented fact... in Robert Greenwald's excellent documentary Outfoxed (for instance)."

Which is merely a left-wing opinion piece, and proves nothing more than that the really Left hates Fox News.

"But it looks like I've found another word that dmarks thinks should not exist (like "wage slave")."

It exists, but it is an entirely meaningless concerpt. Being paid a fair wage in return for your work has nothing to do with slavery.

"Fox News isn't (by and large) news. It's the propaganda arm of the GOP"

It is actually a news organization, and since they present information and facts (which you denigrate as 'propaganda) that you dislike, you make up stuff about them and throw any respect for journalism and the free press out the window.

Ema Nymton said...

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"... throw any respect for journalism and the free press out the window."

"He's totally oblivious to how laughably ridiculous comments like this are."

Ema Nymton
~@:o?
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w-dervish said...

dmarks lied: No, I am being consistent.

I call Fox propaganda and you say I'm "denigrating" them becuae they're reporting "news" I don't want to hear... but Will says certain Fox Nooz "individual antagonists" do propaganda, and you ignore it. All your responses to Will have been positive.

That is not "consistent".

Will: Dude, I challenge you. Watch Harris Faulkner's weekend show (7 PM) and compare that to what you hear EVERY NIGHT coming out of Matthews's mouth.

I decline your challenge. I watch Keith Olbermann on Current at 7pm. Also, I do not hear anything comming out of Matthews' mouth EVERY NIGHT. I dont' watch Chris Matthews... he's too centerist for me.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

All I can say is that if Sean Hannity had ever said that President Obama looked like a car bomber, the condemnation would be world-wide and deafening (justifiably).