Tuesday, November 30, 2010
Note to Mr. Olbermann
It did NOT, Mr. Olbermann, take (former head of Reagan's OMB) David Stockman 28 years to realize that Mr. Reagan's economic policy was flawed - deeply so. He said so in his memoir - you know, the one that he wrote....back in 1986!!! And the thing is, dude, you didn't even really need to read the book to realize this. All that you really needed to do was read the title of it; "The Triumph of Politics: Why the Reagan Revolution Failed". No?
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Shit! I did not know that ! I have to get that book!
Yeah, it's supposed to be a classic/a "take no prisoners" tour de force. Hell, I might even scoff it up.
I hate to rain on your parade, but... (no, not really. I'm just being polite.)
If you look at the last elections, do you REALLY think the Reagan revolution died?
It just moved to the people as intended....
I would disagree,Volt. IMO this was no more a Republican/Tea Party mandate than the vote for Obama was a liberal mandate.
I think it was just a big chunk of uncommitted and dissatisfied and in many cases uninformed (referring to both elections) people voting against the incumbent.
Sorry Voltron, but the corporate sponsored ... as in Koch Industries/US Chamber of Comerce and News Corp free press 24-7/365 propaganda efforts had much more to do with the elections then Reagan's failed economic and social policies ever did.
That plus the lower turn out from the democratic side of the isle this election cycle.
Sorry mouse..you're wrong once again.Union contributions to political candidates and PAC's almost doubled monies contributed by both the Chamber and Koch brothers.That dog dont hunt sparky,get your facts straight before you broad brush something.
The american people booted the dems out of the house and damn near did the same in the senate for one reason and only one reason...as in the past they realize leftwing policies dont work...pure and simple.
Just accept the facts...the people realize Obama aint "the one"
hes just a good bullshitter who they now know cant make anything stick.The guy has never as much as run a hamberger stand never mind the largest business in the world.People now know the guys in way over his head,hes weak and worst of all hes like a babe lost in the woods.
So mouse...please continue reading your talking points about low turnout,corporate spending and cable news causing the republican victory,but in your heart of heart you know very well that if unemployment is over 9% in 2112 Obie will be out building houses with Jimmy Carter.
Per usual, I'm going to split the difference on Reagan. While Mr. Reagan deserves a lot of credit for arms-control and bringing down both unemployment and inflation, he also has a legacy which includes record deficits, the savings and loan fiasco, the Lebanon fiasco, and the Iran-Contra affair. Overall, I'd give him about a B-......As for this whole "mandate" thing, I completely agree with Oso, neither the 2008 nor the 2010 elections were mandates. They were much more instead the acts of simply kicking one set of bums out and putting a new set of bums in (I don't particularly care for either party - can you tell?).
Will,
we're agreeing again! Gonna have to stop meeting like this - people will talk.
"meet the new boss, same as the old boss".
Lot of my fellow liberals disagree but the only one I trust is Ron Paul. I only agree with about a third of his platform but he's honest, rare quality in a politician.
Ok we can go back to disagreeing again ! :)
What liberal policies has Obama gotten done Rusty? The health insurance bill is more welfare for big insurance companies. That's a right wing policy.
We're still in Iraq and Afghanistan. Unions still don't have their card check legislation.
Taxes for the middle class went down under Obama.
I'd love to see real progressive policies enacted. Alas; the right's propaganda machine is too powerful. The sheeple need their daily fix of lies.
Oso, I always thought that you and I agreed more than we disagreed (on American military action, specifically). And even when we disagreed it was more on approach than destination.......Truth, one of the things that bugs me most about the right has been their constant characterization of Mr. Obama as a radical. He isn't. He's a mainstream liberal/Democrat. Now, if a person wanted to get into a discussion pertaining to his competency/judgment, that, clearly, would be a different/legitimate matter.
Truth,just what do you consider "real progressive policies?"
You guys continue to bitch and moan about Obie being too centrist yet you never ever say what these progressive wonderment cures actually are.
Union contributions to political candidates and PAC's almost doubled monies contributed by both the Chamber and Koch brothers.
Election 2010 to Shatter Spending Records as Republicans Benefit from Late Cash Surge
http://www.opensecrets.org/news/2010/10/election-2010-to-shatter-spending-r.html
Identifiably conservative organizations are spending more than $2 on advertisements and other communications for every $1 liberal organizations do. While corporations are behind much of this money, many of these companies have skirted public scrutiny by laundering their cash through intermediary organizations, which often sport nondescript names and don’t immediately, if ever, reveal who funds them.
The three national Democratic party committees do enjoy slight fund-raising advantages over their Republican counterparts this election cycle. And in some of the cycle’s most competitive races, Democrats have built notable financial resources that remain the envy of their Republican opponents.
But nationwide, House Republican congressional candidates themselves have so far raised and spent more money through the middle of October than Democrats – in House races, raising $502 million to $461.5 million, and spending $407.3 million to $397.3 million.
In Senate races, Republicans are out-raising Democrats $400 million to $347 million, although Democrats have spent a tiny fraction more. A key factor in these realities: Major industries and special interest areas that had just months ago primarily bankrolled Democrats have suddenly flocked to the GOP – a phenomenon that the Center finds has only increased in speed as Election Day draws closer.
***********************************
Wanna try another unsubstantiated LIE rusty?
PS you totally ignored the FREE publicity 24/7 Fox (Republican controlled propaganda) News hands the republicans,
Hell they have most of the viable 2012 GOPER pres candidates on their payroll right now.
Identifiably conservative organizations are spending more than $2 on advertisements and other communications for every $1 liberal organizations do.
Fact, unlike the right wing talking points and unsubstantiated spin rusty pushes here .....
Single payer national health insurance that takes the burden of health insurance expense off business.
leaving Iraq and Afghanistan.
Actually enforcing labor law and safety regulations rather than letting more miners die.
We've had 40 years of supply side nonsense that led to a 14 trillion dollar deficit. Your answer is keep doing the same thing.
You're nuts dude.
My solution is very simple, fellas' - public financing of elections. That IMHO is the ONLY way that we can get special interest money out of politics - ON BOTH SIDES.
Interesting that mouse does'nt at all mention any spending by unions.So I'm guessing he's saying the AFL-CIO and the sevice workers and Soro's backed groups gave nothing.Plus he gets his stats from a leftwing site.Yes mouse,you sure are believable.Keep those talking points going till 2112.While you're at it you can rearrange the chairs on the deck.
Truth....you had a full day to come up with "real progressive policies," and the best you can do is single payer healthcare,leave Iraq and Afghanistan,enforce safety and labor laws rather then letting miners die? This is the best you've got? If made law and enforced these things will reduce unemployment,reduce the federal debt and put a chicken in every pot.And you call me nuts...wow.
How is the weather in OZ today?
Truth....you do realize that with the dems in charge the national debt has more then doubled? You do know that...dont you?
Why do you hate people with no health insurance Rusty?
Why do you support the unending occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan that have seen the deaths of our Troops? Why do you hate our Troops that you want them to die in useless occupations and invasions?
Why do you want the miners who risk their lives to keep your house warm Rusty?
Why do you support the failed supply side reaganomics that led to this crippling deficit? What is it aboput fiscal responsibility you hate Rusty?
Truth,its you lefty's who are filled with hate and vitriol as witnessed by the MSNBC bunch and the group failed Air America harpies.
Us conservatives are a pretty happy and content lot.That is until you libs want another freebie from the public teat without doing anything to earn it.
Yep,I think its you guys that are boiling over with hate.
Oh yea,my house is heated by natural gas.....I dont think they mine that,but thanks for the thought.
We only want an America that is better for all Americans Rusty. Even those with deluded right wing views such as you.
Halliburton get any cost plus jobs from the government lately Rusty? You must hate Cheney.
Rusty,
The only site I observed "anon" citing was opensecrets.org, hardly a leftwing site.My first visit there surprised me,I'd assumed Reps got far more campaign contributions from F.I.R.E sector sources than Dems, the site proved me wrong.
Unions contribute almost exclusively to Dems but they have lost so much membership they are not much of a factor.
Soros is a big $ donor but nowhere in the same league as the Koch's.
referring to those on the left as filled with hate and vitriol when you have Fox/Malkin/Coulter on the right is just silly.
I just get very confused with these labels. Like, for instance, with health-care reform, I am FOR universal health-care coverage. That makes me a progressive, right? But, then again, I am not in favor of getting there via a single payer system. Oops, back to being a nonprogressive again. And it's literally like this with issue after issue these days - the left and right battling it out and nothing getting done. I do have to give President Obama some credit for at least trying to compromise (this, me-buckos, while the Republicans have acted a lot more like stumps).
Oso my friend....please stop smoking that stuff,its clouding your thinking.The SEIU dumped over 7 million trying to unseat Blanche Lincoln and that was only the democratic primary.
Oso,that was a primary in friggin Arkansas...for a senate seat they were going to lose anyway.Would'nt you be a bit pissed if you were a dues paying member and they burned your money like that? Well,maybe not...libs are'nt exactly know for straight thinking.
The dems have had two years to put this tax situation to bed...but now they have the whole country three weeks away from the largest tax hike in history...the circular firing squad is forming.
They are more concerned about the Dream Act and the Salt Treaty...stupid,stupid,stupid.
Russ, I gave Lincoln a lot of credit for standing up to the unions (in one of my posts - I forgot which one). And I agree with you that there's a shit-load of special interest money on both sides. But, I don't agree with you that focusing in on the Start Treaty is stupid - especially not when you have 4-5 former Republican Secretaries of State saying the opposite. If you ask me, it's Jon Kyl and the Senate Republicans who are being more-so moronic here.
Sorry Will,these Beck guys are so frustrating.They echo the most outlandish stuff from his show, and call anything that contradicts it
"liberal bias".
They even call Bernanke of all people a liberal.
Rusty is a republican operative, he even admitted traveling to Florida, to work for Rubio's campaign,
Which of the rest of us could take time off(unless he is actually paid) to do that?
His factiods have no substance like most of this posts, which is why he tries to slander and uses such childish language most of the time.
yep.
You libs chase the most foolish things...stuff that really has no merit except making you leftys feel all warm and fuzzzy and PC to the max.
Will,do you think if this treaty with Russia does'nt get signed immediately Putin will build 10,000 missles,move them to the German border and put his finger on the button.....come on man.
And we should worry about and pass the Dream Act prior to any thought about taxes....come on man.
And sorry mouse my factoids are correct...the SEIU did spend over 7 million of its members cash trying to beat Lincoln in the primary....come on man.
As for me working for Marc Rubio this past year in Florida...guilty as charged and proud to have worked for the future president,but I was'nt paid,in fact I was in Florida working for our casino management company at the Hard Rock's in both Tampa and Hollywood.....come on man.
Wow....labor department today announces that unemployment has jumped to 9.8%....yep,this sure is a good time to raise taxes.Obies policies sure are having a positive effect on the economy...well,not really but thats the lib spin on it.
Like that dufuss senator from Ohio,Sherrod Brown said the other day...."unemployment insurance is the best stimulus to get the economy moving." Is there a special place you dems go to get these idiots?
Russ, I never gave a hard time for working for Rubio. If you like the guy you should work for him. Your issue on this one I believe is with some of these other gentlemen......But on this other topic, let me ask you a question. Who do you trust more on foreign policy/diplomacy; Larry Eagleberger, Jimmy Baker, George Schultz, Henry Kissinger, and Colin Powell or Jon Kyl and Mitch McConnell? Me, I'll take the former group of folks any day.
Actually, Russ, according to "Moody's", unemployment benefits ARE an effective stimulus. Not that you can't make it better, of course; have more audits, mandate that people take certain jobs if they pay a certain % of their previous jobs, etc.. It's called compromise, Russ. Don't you think that the 2 parties should be doing MORE of that these days?
O.K. Will,let me get this straight...the theory you leftys hold is that 9.8% unemployment is'nt as bad as it seems,because if the mojority of these folks are collecting benefits they are stimulating the economy with that money.Now,if your theory is correct we would be in much better shape if the unemployment rate increased to about 20% and we had...say a little more then double the present number collecting unemployment....why,if your theory held water it would be absolute boom time in america.
Hell,that may very well be Obies plan...well,he's on his way.
You dems come up with some goofy stuff,but perhaps this one will work for you.Yea..get about 30 million collecting unemployment and our economic problems are solved.
I agree fully Will,the foreign policy experts you mentioned where on the whole topnotch.But,they were only asked a question about the treaty....they were not asked which was more important at this moment...the treaty or the tax issue.Seeing that each of them have been involved with treaties in some form I'd be suprised if they had'nt said what they did.
Russ, why do you keep calling me a Democrat? I'm an independent who criticizes the left almost as much as I do the right. The theory isn't mine, it's Moody's. According to them, for every dollar of unemployment comp. you give out, it stimulates the economy by $1.60. And for every dollar you give to the highest earners in the form of a tax-cut, you only stimulate the economy by 32 cents......And I agree with the right that we should pay for it out of unspent stimulus money (that, and, like I said, I'd be willing to put in more audits to make certain that the folks are actually looking for work). I'm trying to work/compromise with you guys.
On the subject of unemployment...I've never heard any dems say how long an individual should be allowed to collect the benefits,all they ever scream about is extensions.
Now let me ask the question to Will,Truth,mouse,Oso...how long a period of time should an individual be allowed to collect unemployment benefits? Come on folks no spin,just give a time length.
So Will,you're sticking to the lib theory that unemployment payments do in fact stimulate the economy and that if we could get the unemployment rate up to about 20% and more then double the number now collecting benefits the american economy would in fact be booming.
Come on folks no spin,just give a time length.
Until the economy actually produces jobs,
That is the ONLY rational answer,
When you have 5 unemployed people for every job opening,
What do YOU propose to do?
Starve the 4 didn't get the job and their families?
I wasn't aware, Russ, that Moody's was a liberal publication. As to the amount of time, I'm not entirely sure that there's a magic number here. A lot depends on the unemployment level in a particular area. If it's like 14-15% in that area, you're probably going to have to extend them no matter what. The only other option, like anonymous says, is that you let the people go without......And like I also said to you, I'm more than willing to look at ways to make the system better. There probably ARE (in fact, I KNOW that there are) some people out there who are milking the system. But let's go after them and not the people who are actually trying.
Typical lib spin....ask for a deadline and you get the usual answer's....no answer.
"until the economy produces jobs." "depends on the unemployment level in a certain area."
Soooooooo,if the ecomomy does'nt improve in the next five years we pay unemployment benefits for an unlimited ammount of time to an unlimited number of people.I'll be damned,thats one hell of a plan.But then again according to your economic theory...the more people there are collecting unemployment,the better the economy will be stimulated.I wonder if they teach that theory at Wharton School of Business?
Let me make a wild guess here...to pay for all these unlimited unemployment benefits we tax the rich.
I'm with those "liberal" Republicans on this one, Russ. Extend the unemployment benefits but pay for it with unspent stimulus funds.....Who are you with?
Neither
99 weeks and done.No if and or buts.
And if a person on unemploment who was say making $25 per hour on their previous job is offered a job for $15 per hour and they refuse it their benifits are reduced by 25%.
If they do it a second time their benefits are reduced another 25%.The third time they are done.
Russ, didn't I say that? "mandate that people take certain jobs if they pay a certain % of their previous jobs." Me, personally - I collected unemployment for 7 weeks 9 years ago. I could have collected much longer but I instead took a job that paid $24,000 a year less.
Damn Will,you're half conservative.There's hope for you yet.
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