Saturday, March 22, 2014

On the Concept of Lincoln Freeing the Slaves

I really want the folks to think about this one. Lincoln EXPRESSLY told the South that they could continue to practice slavery and all that they had to do was stay in the union and pay the tariff, and that, even if he did want to end slavery, it probably would have been unconstitutional (HIS words). So (and, yes, this is where the absurdity comes to fore), if the South eventually did pull back and opted NOT to leave the Union, SLAVERY WOULD HAVE CONTINUED (possibly for decades - depending on the political will) and all of this talk about Lincoln as the "great emancipator" would have never happened!! The South, folks, made Lincoln!

18 comments:

Rational Nation USA said...

Hey Will. ole Derve is really spinning like a top over at Delusional Whirlwind, aka Sleeping with The Devil.

If the dude keeps it up he'll end up in Kansas.

But hey, he's doing much to give those he despises more recognition than perhaps they ever could on their own.

Perhaps he should be thanked? Rational and reasonable individuals, like Joe Kelly of Truth 101 (a liberal progressive) know Mr. Sanders is a "shithead", in fact it was Joe who gave ole Derve that distinction.

Carry on Will, I think you've really rattled Derve's chains.

Jerry Critter said...

Who, then, freed the slaves?

BB-Idaho said...

What is it, about 18 posts on how the South was right and should have won the Civil War? Sort of
a one-track deal like CNN on the
missing passenger plane!

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

The American people collectively did, Jerry. If it were up to Lincoln, he would have allowed the South to continue owning slaves as long as they returned to the Union by 1/1/1863. The fellow was all about consolidating power, taxing the shit out of people, and paying of his railroad cronies.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

First off (and hopefully you're kidding), BB, the South wasn't "right" (ditto, racist Indiana and slave-holding New Jersey). Slavery was a vile institution and the goal absolutely should have been to get rid of it. The only dispute here is a) method and b) this contention that Lincoln was predominantly moved by it (and not by power, money, corruption, etc.).......As for who should have won the war, I don't believe that there should have been one but since in fact there was, yeah, the North should have won.

Jerry Critter said...

"The American people collectively did"

That's a cop out, Will. If it is not Lincoln, then name the person.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

It was the 13th Amendment, Jerry. The Senate passed it in 1864 and the House passed it in 1865 and then Lincoln had no choice but to sign it.

Jerry Critter said...

Not what, who.

Rational Nation USA said...

Shit Will, ya just keep crapping, (with facts no less) on their hit parade.

But it will keep ole Derve busy on his next lengthy swerving illogical post.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

Um, they're called Senators and Congressmen, Jerry. However many of the bunch voted for it.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

You got it, Les; his Contra Contra O'Reilly blog that I've never read.

Jerry Critter said...

After winning the election of 1864, Lincoln made the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment his top legislative priority, beginning his efforts while the "lame duck" session was still in office.[52][53] [Source]

Give credit where credit is due.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

He had no choice, Jerry. Freemont was threatening a third party run and Seward was pushing him from within. Thaddeus Stevens and guys like that - those were the real heroes.

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

And what did he ultimately plan to do with all of those free black people? It isn't entirely clear that he ever gave up his designs to get them the hell out of here and back on a boat to Africa.

Jerry Critter said...

What part of "After winning the election" don't you understand?

Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...

What was he going to do, not sign it, after the House, the Senate, and 27 states ratified it, and after he had committed to supporting it? The man was as fucking racist, Jerry, and crediting him for emancipation is kind of like crediting the dew for the sun rising in the morn.

Rational Nation USA said...

Will, this is an argument being carried out on two entirely different levels. Good luck.

Carry on...

Jerry Critter said...

Ok Will. I guess you don't read what I write. I will repeat it.

After winning the election of 1864, Lincoln made the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment his top legislative priority, beginning his efforts while the "lame duck" session was still in office.[52][53]

"Made passage a top priority" happens before it is passed and ratified.