Tuesday, March 15, 2011
The Fascist Card - It's Getting Frayed
They're at it again, folks, the completely lacking in perspective "progressives" and their Nazi comparisons - "The Fascists are Coming", that apparently being their latest battle cry. I mean, yes, I understand, they're angry that the Republicans in Wisconsin (the Governor and the legislature there) voted to limit the collective bargaining powers of municipal workers. But it was just a frigging vote by a bunch of people who the other people of the state voted for. If the citizens of Wisconsin ultimately decide that these elected Republicans have overstepped, then they're free to vote them out at some point (via a recall and/or the next scheduled elections). I mean, it's not like the Republicans have staged some military coups or something, cancelled all future elections, whatever! And even though they they did take away a "right" (a right, mind you, that liberals such as FDR, George Meany, Jimmy Carter, and Mayor Laguardia didn't think that municipal workers should have, either) of sorts, a different result of a future election could in fact restore it. It's basically called Democracy, people............................................................................................................And, besides, shouldn't progressives get their own house in order first? FDR, the greatest progressive in history, tried to pack the Supreme Court, routinely used the IRS as a weapon against his political opponents (Republicans AND Democrats), used political patronage to the point where it was almost bribery, and interned tens of thousands of Japanese-Americans. And, AND, he was also against collective bargaining for government workers. Not, mind you, that any of this makes FDR a fascist, either. But just for some perspective, I'm saying.........................................................................................................I'll tell you what, folks. If Walker and the rest of those clowns up in Wisconsin a) try and cancel the 2012 elections (which would be stupid because the Feds would march on in and stop them), b) suspend the writ of Habeus Corpus (which would be stupid because the Feds would march on in and stop them), or c) try to seceded from the Union (which would be stupid because the Feds would march on in and stop them), then, yeah, maybe at that time we can dust off the fascist label. But until then, progressives just have to face the fact that they lost the battle here and need to try harder the next time.
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11 comments:
Will - An evenhanded and reasoned response to both the issue in Wisconsin and the progressives proclivity to use the fascist or raaaaacist allegation at the drop of a hat.
As to succeeding from the Union... well, that might be a great topic for another dat.
Good post!
Welcome, RN. I gotta admit. I am a little torn by this Wisconsin thing. While I tend to agree with Walker on this entire collective bargaining thing, I can't say that I like his tactics very much. First of all, he didn't campaign on the issue. And, secondly, he showed no willingness at all to negotiate. That could ultimately harm him with the voters. We'll just have to wait and see, huh?
Yeah, on the outset the fascist card his frayed but so is the socialist and "Obama ain't an American" card to which the conservatives so desperately cling. Yes, you know I am liberal but I find both sides so mired in moronic name calling that as much as both sides like to predict the demise of the country I see their behavior as bringing it on quicker.
Where I have to part with my very frayed bipartisan spirit is when it comes to the recent post where I asked when will the rich be asked to sacrifice something for the good of the country.
As for secession from the Union I find it curious you threw that one in the mix since its the republicans that keep bringing that one up. I find the subject funny6 as Hell because with this increasing oscillation between the left and right widening the gap between the two it is only a matter of time before some left-wing Rick Perry and left-wing teabagger/libertarian group develops calling for the blue states to withdraw. Of course the right will become all indignant and start preaching about unpatriotic the left has become.
You're right. There are elements on the right that have totally lost perspective, too. Obama is a good and decent man whose views, while I don't always agree with them, are well within the bounds of mainstram politics (Hannity's protestations, notwithstanding).......That, and I also agree that the top rates should go back to 39.6.
It is unfortunate there are such a large number on the right that continue to question Obama's citizenship. It is a diversionary tactic, one I dismissed quite quickly.
As to socialism. Hell, even as an independent conservative I realize that socialism has existed in the US for over 70 years. Obama in my opinion is not unlike the rest that have made the case for the federal governments foray and huge roll in the social sphere of our lives. I see it in a different philosophical light. That's all. My concern is stopping the ever growing and bloated federal government.
As to states succeeding. Well that is a philosophic debate for another day. But I ask a question. In as much as each individual state voluntarily joined the union of separate and individual states should they not have the right to voluntary;y separate should they so choose.
I do not advocate that any state separate from the union. Rather I ask the question from a constitutional perspective.
My answer to the question on taxes, and "when will the rich be forced to sacrifice something for the good of the country" is:
http://rationalnationusa.blogspot.com/2010/10/independent-conservatives-thoughts-on.html
I wasn't a big fan of the Democratic health-care plan, either. But I also recognized that it was basically the same as what the Republicans themselves offered in 1994 (their alternative to Hillarycare). The stimulus? Yeah, that was a major turkey/the money could have been spent more effectively. But even that was a fairly mainstream approach. I think that you've basically hit the nail on the head here, RN. Since the FDR administration, we've basically been a mixed economy (one, unfortunately in which business and government sectors interbreed) with a myriad of ebbs and flows (FDR, Nixon, and Obama probably being the most interventionist into the private sector).
The Left has been accused of being communists for nearly a century. It is the Right thing to do. The fact that fascists also accused their opposition with similar tactics needs to be considered.
Certain provisions of the Patriot Act are certainly in line with fascistic government, as was the Bush Administration's "enemy combatant" label that magically erased Habeas Corpus.
Administration lawyers allowing waterboarding and torture to the point of organ failure and death is without a doubt part of the slippery slope into fascism. The Right's efforts to disenfranchise Dem leaning voters with new ID requirements are also a blow against democracy. This is intent to strip a fundamental right. What is the term for partisan CEO's promising to deliver victory with their non-paper-trail voting machines? "Diebold Democracy"?
There are forces actively intent on suppressing democracy in the US. They are not of the Left.
Can we say "conservatives oppose democracy"? Not real conservative people like the Amish, but certainly political Right Wingers who've hijacked the word conservative, like they slimed the word liberal.
Now "Conservative" means anything in favor of the agenda of the economic elite. Nothing more really, unless it's Bible thumping from Fundies. And they are certainly opposed to democracy.
Don't take my word for it. Open your eyes and see what's going down, from Union busting to the Patriot Act. This is fascism on the rise. The powerful elite have made the working people of America their enemies. I guess it's only "class warfare" when the victims fight back.
And heed the words of the enemies of democracy:
"I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of the people. They never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.” – Heritage Foundation co-founder Paul Weyrich
It's a fine line between corporatocracy and fascism. Most Americans are becomming second class citizens behind the economic elites. As long corporations are "persons" and their money is "free speech" this is where we are heading.
Yes, Dave, the Bushies water-boarded a spate of lunkheads. It was wrong and we shouldn't do it again. I wouldn't even mind a fact-finding mission that meted out some justice (you really need to talk to Obama on this one). But, please, some perspective here. FDR interned the Japanese. LBJ lied us into war. And Churchill frigging incinerated tens of thousands of refugees, women, and children at Dresden - in what was basically retribution! I mean, I know that it's easy to get caught up in the moment and all but, come on.......As for pictured IDs and voting, I can't vote without one. Can you? And, besides, we need a pictured ID to drive, to purchase alcohol, even to go fishing, for Christ. You want people to vote without showing proper identification? How in the hell is that Democratic (that and a bunch of partisan ACORN lunkheads going around proselytizing)?......The Patriot Act, Dave? The Patriot Act passed 99-1. The only politician with the balls enough to oppose it was Russ Feingold (who I very much respect, btw). That, my friend, was a bipartisan screwing. And, again, you really need to speak to Obama here. As far as I know, he's pretty much kept most of Bush's anti-terror measures (wire-tapping, rendition, limitless detention, Gitmo, etc.).
Will,
I agree that the appeasing Dems are certainly part of the problem. Obama's "Looking forward" instead of investigating pre-war falsehoods, fixed intelligence, torture, etc will only result in worse violations in the future. This is a promise.
My first point was liberals have endured the Commie card for much longer, and with less justification, than the radical Right has been called fascist. Why don’t you admit that Commie card is even more frayed than the fascist card?
Again I agree with you on the abuses of past presidents, but the Bush Administration exhibited far more fascistic policies and actions than any previous one. Unprovoked war of aggression based on falsehoods, detention without charge, disregard of Habeas Corpus, torture, warrantless surveillance, are all Bush Administration initiated hallmarks of fascism. And none were investigated. If you don’t see this as the slippery slope, I need to wonder what perspective you think I should take.
You know as well as I that the new voter ID laws are Republican attempts to disenfranchise poor and elderly voters who tend to vote for Dems. The fraud is less a problem than the cure. Voting is a right, not a licensed privilege like driving and fishing for Pete’s sake. Unless the citizens are issued free photo ID’s for voting, it results in a de facto poll tax. As you may have seen me post before, democracy is not a right wing value.
Don't take my word for it. Open your eyes and see what's going down, from Union busting to the Patriot Act, to government subservience to Wall Street and the military industrial complex. This is fascism on the rise. The powerful plutocratic elite have made the working people of America their adversaries.
And heed the words of the opponents of democracy:
"I don't want everybody to vote. Elections are not won by a majority of the people. They never have been from the beginning of our country and they are not now. As a matter of fact, our leverage in the elections quite candidly goes up as the voting populace goes down.” – Heritage Foundation co-founder Paul Weyrich
Doh! Blogger's not making things any easier.
We can't ignore the fact that the radical Right also plays their own Nazi/fascist card.
Just saw a clip of O'Reilly saying there's no difference between the Huffington Post and the Nazis.
Then there's Beck saying Progressives are not using Nazi methods, but Nazis used early progressive methods, or some such bile.
That's the beauty of the radical Right. They redefine words at will and use Socialist, Communist and Nazi interchangeably. Anything is valid to incite anger against opposition to the plutocracy of the economic elite. It's not a one-way street and the Right is using all lanes.
If MSNBC was truly the equivalent of FOX(R), Schultz, Maddow, and company would be calling Republicans and conservatives Nazis, and still get to keep their jobs. Instead we see FOX(R)'s director Roger Ailes calling NPR execs a "bunch of Nazis".
Pretty fair and balanced, eh?
Beck (who I rarely watch because I can't - work, etc.) and O'Reilly (who I do watch and criticize frequently) are idiots, Dave. Show me where I've in any way defended them......As for the folks at MSNBC, Schultz consistently uses ad hominems, Matthews compared the religious right to the Taliban, and Olbermann constantly used to use the race card. Does this all make 'em as bad as Fox? Maybe not. But it sure doesn't make 'em good, either.
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