Saturday, May 31, 2008
Silver Bull-Shit
To all the liberals who have criticized (many times with justification) the United States for not supporting Democracy around the world, I ask you, where's the criticism of Barak Obama for what he said at that "appeasement" press-conference?.....................................Just to remind everybody, Obama was harshly critical of President Bush for having pushed for elections in Gaza, for not having the foresight to predict that the terrorist organization (Obama's characterization, to which I agree) Hamas would emerge victorious. Obama's point (again, I'm summarizing) was that elections alone do not constitute Democracy, that you need a firm foundation of other institutions/freedoms to support them (an analysis that I have a tendency to agree with, actually)..................................You see what I'm saying here, right? This was never, EVER, part of the left's criteria before - not to my recollection anyway. Those who pushed for elections in Vietnam in 1956, for example - they just wanted a frigging election/didn't care that a bloodthirsty killing-machine with potential Soviet ties was about to take over................................... And, no, don't get me wrong HERE, either. Me - I'm personally not in favor of foreign entanglements, period - barbarism in Southeast Asia or not. The only thing that I'm asking for is consistency (Jesse Jackson - rhyme your way out of this one buddy). Barak Obama criticized free and fair elections and, yes, I'm still waiting for some condemnation from the left. So much for guiding principles, huh?
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10 comments:
I tend to agree at least philosophically with your position about not getting into foreign entanglements. Like many others say, "Who elected us the worlds policeman?".
However the fact is, the rest of the (free) world did.
Every time they get into a situation that escalates out of their control, who do they call?
Hint: It ain't ghost busters.
If they expect us to coming running to their aid when some major event occurs, then they need to accept the fact that we will get involved BEFORE things get out of hand too.
Regarding "free" elections in third world countries and the middle east, (is that redundant?) this is another misconception that western countries have. We believe that all people are just like us and want freedom. We don't take into account the different mindset and world view that have been instilled in them since birth. When you've been told all your life what to do, when to do it, and how to live, sudden freedom can be a scary thing.
Now throw in a "religion", again instilled from birth, which teaches you that someone else is responsible for all your ills, tells you who to hate, and that killing is justified and you have a real mess on your hands.
Many of these people are not psychologically mature or "whole" enough to deal with the consequences of their own actions that true freedom requires.
(much like many liberals)
While they may get "used" to freedom in several years or decades, it will take generations to purge the evil that is Islam.
Liberalism on the other hand has been ongoing for time immemorial. They will never get used to the fact that others have freedom to express THEIR opinions too.
I think all that pent up rage is due to the fact they were born without a sense of humor, but hey that's just me...
Duncetron said "We believe that all people are just like us and want freedom. We don't take into account the different mindset and world view that have been instilled in them since birth. When you've been told all your life what to do, when to do it, and how to live, sudden freedom can be a scary thing.
Now throw in a "religion", again instilled from birth, which teaches you that someone else is responsible for all your ills, tells you who to hate, and that killing is justified and you have a real mess on your hands.
Many of these people are not psychologically mature or "whole" enough to deal with the consequences of their own actions that true freedom requires."
You just described the Neo Con wackos and fundamentalist religious loons to a tee Volty!
Voltron said...
Liberalism on the other hand has been ongoing for time immemorial. They will never get used to the fact that others have freedom to express THEIR opinions too.
I think all that pent up rage is due to the fact they were born without a sense of humor, but hey that's just me..."
I have no problem with OTHERS expressing their opinions though many Reich wing goons you seem to support certainly do...........Bush has gutted and destroyed the Bill of Rights , The Constitution and many of the fredoms and privacies they were designed to protect., with his illigal unconstitutional spy programs, he has also limited freedom of speech and the right to assemble with his so called "free speech" zones that are often miles away from events where that relevant freedom could be exercised, then there is his claimed ability to torture or imprison without due process or rules of evidence, Habeous Corpus, or a fair trial or adaquae legal representation or a fair trial, then theres the secret jails, the partisan justices and use of the DOJ and the Executive Branch as a whole to Obstruct justice and stifle oversite and investigations for partisan purposes...........Bush has run his administration like a criminal empire with perpetual rule and world dominance as his clear objective and you support the little fascist dictator instead of defending the freedom you CLAIM to support and value.
Mike, many of those programs were STARTED under Clinton, especially ECHELON and CARNIVORE.
The Dems ALSO had their "free speech zones". Ann Coulter wrote about it for USA Today.
And legal protections under the constitution only apply to citizens of the USA NOT foreigners abroad.
Also, NOT ONE Geneva convention article that we've signed onto demand these protections for terrorists who do not wear any national uniform and hide among the civilian population.
Voltron said...
Mike, many of those programs were STARTED under Clinton, especially ECHELON and CARNIVORE.
The Dems ALSO had their "free speech zones". Ann Coulter wrote about it for USA Today.
And legal protections under the constitution only apply to citizens of the USA NOT foreigners abroad.
Also, NOT ONE Geneva convention article that we've signed onto demand these protections for terrorists who do not wear any national uniform and hide among the civilian population."
Trying to muddy the waters with BS again Volty.......You show me examples of "free speech zones" under democrats that were miles away from State of The Union Adresses or ones where people wearing shirts the president didnt like or where people exercised their free speech and said things the president didnt like got arrested these have happenednumerous times in Nazi Germany but NOT here till GWB seized power.
As for Carnivore and Echelon........like Reagan said there you go again muddying the waters..........while i dont support them they are a far cry from the Orwellian fascist spy programs that Reich Wing goons like Bush and Hoover have used and likely still are using to blackmail politicians and the wealthy and powerful for partisan purposes to push their self serving agendas.
Duncetron said "And legal protections under the constitution only apply to citizens of the USA NOT foreigners abroad."
When are you going to wake up and look at whats right in front of your nose....................those legal protections that are SUPPOSED to apply to American citizens are being trampled on by Reich Wing goons like GWB and his evil freedom hating fascists.......and simpletons like you that support him and devour any fear mongering war mongering BS he serves up to you clowns.
I never once said foreiners Duncetron............your the one supporting an administration that is as far as can be from fiscally responsible, wants perpetual war, and wants to revoke the Constitituion and the checks and balances and loathes freedoms liberty and privacy for its citizens............clowns you support want to bring back the era of the robber barrons and support fascism over free markets.
You yourself were whining about traders and speculators driving up the price of oil............Why do you hate free markets so much?
From Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zones
"During the 1988 Democratic National Convention, the city of Atlanta set up an official "free speech area"[5] so the convention would not be disrupted. A pro-choice demonstrator against an Operation Rescue group said Atlanta Mayor Andrew Young "put us in a free-speech cage."[6] "Protest zones" were used during the 1992 and 1996 United States presidential nominating conventions[7]
Free speech zones were used in Boston at the 2004 Democratic National Convention. The free speech zones organized by the authorities in Boston were boxed in by concrete walls, invisible to the Fleet Center where the convention was held and criticized harshly as a "protest pen" or "Boston's Camp X-Ray".[10] "Some protesters for a short time Monday [July 26, 2004] converted the zone into a mock prison camp by donning hoods and marching in the cage with their hands behind their backs."[11] A coalition of groups protesting the Iraq War challenged the planned protest zones. U. S. District Court Judge Douglas Woodlock was sympathetic to their request: "One cannot conceive of what other design elements could be put into a space to create a more symbolic affront to the role of free expression."[12]. However, he ultimately rejected the petition to move the protest zones closer to the Fleet Center.[13]"
Fuck any demacrat that would support a "free speech zone"
See Volt unlike you I"M NOT a Demacrat, never was and very likely may never be, and i'm not a partisan if the dems do something wrong i bash them just like i would the repugs............YOU on the other hand are a conservative and a repug and one who defends them right or wrong just like your doing now, when someone creates a free speech zone or molests a child I say its WRONG and indefensible period no matter who does it...........you on the other hand say well a demacrat did it too, so its not that bad.
Sorry Widdle Will>
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