tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post961417019732548481..comments2023-08-24T07:27:12.657-07:00Comments on Contra O'Reilly: Take a Vote on it, BoysWill "take no prisoners" Harthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comBlogger31125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-81208628926492751792008-12-30T20:08:00.000-08:002008-12-30T20:08:00.000-08:00I don't think I'd want to be the guy who walks int...I don't think I'd want to be the guy who walks into FDR's office and tell him that his best friend is a traitor and needs to be hung. You can handle that part of the plan, Mike. And another Harriman was on the management team, the day to day operations of Union Bank Corps. Yikes, huh?Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-82361140091339089672008-12-30T20:04:00.000-08:002008-12-30T20:04:00.000-08:00Mike, you said "right wing ideologues like Dulles ...Mike, you said "right wing ideologues like Dulles and Prescott Bush". I just wanted to point out that Prescott Bush was not a right-winger at all, but a liberal Republican (ala Nelson Rockefeller, ala Jacob Javits, ala Chuck Percy, ala Ed Brooke, ala Lowell Weicker, ala Dick Schweiker, etc.). As for the Nazi association, I'm not saying that what Bush and other businessmen did was good, or even forgiveable. I'm just doubting seriously whether he OR Averill Harriman OR the Duponts OR Henry Ford OR any of them fully understood the gravity of the situation. I don't even think that Joe Kennedy (who was quite rightly fired by FDR) fully understood it. You're obviously free to disagree with me, of course.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-53859005269723761062008-12-29T20:45:00.000-08:002008-12-29T20:45:00.000-08:00Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...We can debate...Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...<BR/>We can debate Prescott Bush's culpability during the years prior to WW2 (contrasting it to Averill Harriman, Henry Ford, the Dupont family, etc.). But I don't think it's accurate to call him a right-wing idealogue. Bush was a liberal Republican from Connecticut (most Republicans from CT have been liberal; Lowell Weicker, Stewart McKinney, our current governor, Jodi Rell, to name a few). He was a champion of MANY liberal causes such as planned parenthood and the United Negro College Fund. He was in fact more liberal than Rockefeller, even more liberal than some of the Dems of his day (people forget that back then BOTH parties had a conservative and liberal wing). He was a mixed bag, too, I guess is what I'm saying."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Like I said before who cares if he was liberal or not or more liberal than someone else, LBJ was a liberal and so was Hillary and I cant stand them................i'm not a demacrat or a far left liberal...........also who cares if Harriman owned MORE shares or Other business men did wrong also............wrong is wrong and supporting IG Farben that built the Concentration camps and the German idustrial and military base when we were at war is FAR different that mere war profitting with other german companies before we were Offically at war.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-33603305354465686572008-12-29T20:40:00.000-08:002008-12-29T20:40:00.000-08:00Stella said "Mike, Warren is a bigot and a misogyn...Stella said "Mike, Warren is a bigot and a misogynist. However, this is Obama's selection, along with Rev. Joseph Lowrey, who is an extremely progressive minister. Obama is giving both perspectives a voice."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Couldnt agree more................i'm NO FAN of Warren but he's Obama's choice and at this point I accept it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-58395254603077924782008-12-29T20:38:00.000-08:002008-12-29T20:38:00.000-08:00Stella said...In fact, Kennedy did escalate in Vie...Stella said...<BR/>In fact, Kennedy did escalate in Viet Nam, then recognized his error and changed course. We also need to remember the Bay of Pigs, which put our nation precariously close to starting another world war. Again, Kennedy changed direction and acted wisely. As for me, I would have been overjoyed to see RFK as president. Obama reminds me more of him."<BR/><BR/><BR/>I agree Stella................think how much better off our country would have been if we would have had RFK instead of Nixon and Gore instead of GWB?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-26378146781947352592008-12-29T20:35:00.000-08:002008-12-29T20:35:00.000-08:00Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...This is inter...Will "take no prisoners" Hart said...<BR/>This is interesting, Stella. In a recent interview, Obama was asked who he thought the great presidents were. He listed Lincoln, FDR, JFK, and Eisenhower. Maybe he was paying back Susan Eisenhower for her support but, I'm telling you, I see a lot of Eisenhower in Obama; a prudence, a pragmatism, etc.. I'm praying that I'm right. P.S. If Ike was alive today, I'm pretty sure he'd be a Democrat."<BR/><BR/><BR/>Again another good post.................I think those named Are CLEARLY among our top Presidents........I also think Ike would be a Demacrat today...............For the record I dont think Obama was paying back Susan Eisenhower I think he's the real deal.........I think he's a smart man I think he will REALLY focus on Energy/Nation Security and long term economic competitiveness by trying to bring back good paying middle class jobs..............unfortunately with the financial disaster he inherited it might not be enough to save our country or his political career.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-69304114665686328932008-12-29T20:08:00.000-08:002008-12-29T20:08:00.000-08:00The $850,000,000,000 stimulus program does sound a...The $850,000,000,000 stimulus program does sound a little scarry. But it sounds like a lot of conservatives are talking this stuff, too. Newt Gingrich isn't one of my favorite people, but I think I might agree with his opinion that Paulsen is the worst Secretary of the Treasury ever.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-83199554287163564992008-12-29T19:27:00.000-08:002008-12-29T19:27:00.000-08:00Will, I'll tell you how worried I am about it.I'm ...Will, I'll tell you how worried I am about it.<BR/><BR/>I'm hoping he's more like Carter than FDR. If he repeats the mistakes of Hoover and FDR we're screwed big time.IrOnY RaGeDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15415495177472751193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-18836641417482131462008-12-29T19:11:00.000-08:002008-12-29T19:11:00.000-08:00Voltron, thank you so much, man. I know you don't ...Voltron, thank you so much, man. I know you don't like Obama much (heck, I still have a reservation or two myself) but your an honest guy and Clif could learn a lesson or two from you. As for Obama and his "bridging the divide", I have to tell you that I have in fact heard a fair amount of praise from conservatives for him. Even Bill Bennett on CNN said some good things. I know that this election is still raw on a lot of people but, me, I'm willing to let it shake out a little more. I think he (Obama) might be a little more like Bill Clinton (a nonpromiscuous version, hopefully) than FDR, LBJ, etc. (not that that's bad or good, mind you, just a feeling I have).Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-54398771709891208162008-12-29T16:12:00.000-08:002008-12-29T16:12:00.000-08:00Oh and why is it that most liberals think Obama is...Oh and why is it that most liberals think Obama is "bridging the divide" when most conservatives don't?<BR/><BR/>Is that kinda like how Democrats feel "bipartisanship" is when Republicans go along with whatever Barbara Streisand they come up with?IrOnY RaGeDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15415495177472751193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-71335047413011220182008-12-29T15:46:00.000-08:002008-12-29T15:46:00.000-08:00As to the rest of the conversation, "no comment".As to the rest of the conversation, "no comment".IrOnY RaGeDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15415495177472751193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-10541085183466865862008-12-29T15:44:00.000-08:002008-12-29T15:44:00.000-08:00The page doesn't exist on blogger anymore, but her...The page doesn't exist on blogger anymore, but here is google's cache...<BR/><BR/><A HREF="http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:buMbiTciENwJ:thefuturewasyesterday.blogspot.com/2008/05/ive-been-pullled-over-by-oblahma-police.html+%22thefuturewasyesterday%22%2B%22will+%22take+no+prisoners%22+hart%22&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us&client=firefox-a" REL="nofollow">The Future was Yesterday</A>IrOnY RaGeDhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15415495177472751193noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-21217249635454377812008-12-29T14:29:00.000-08:002008-12-29T14:29:00.000-08:00I don't make stuff up. The Alzheimer's Association...I don't make stuff up. The Alzheimer's Association doesn't honor liars.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-77368947376630118042008-12-29T14:25:00.000-08:002008-12-29T14:25:00.000-08:00About a year ago this guy referred to me as a memb...About a year ago this guy referred to me as a member of the "Obama police". Seriously!<BR/><BR/><BR/>Can you prove this statement?<BR/><BR/>Or are you making it up like most of your accusations, will?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-7174563386269222572008-12-28T20:07:00.000-08:002008-12-28T20:07:00.000-08:00You've got it right, Stella. All of these guys are...You've got it right, Stella. All of these guys are mixed bags. Even Bush, who I think is the worst president of my time (20 years from now, if I'm alive, I might say otherwise) gave a lot of money for AIDS relief in Africa. LBJ screwed up Vietnam but he was a bear on civil rights. George H.W. Bush, when he was a congressman from Texas, was one of the few southerners to vote for Johson's Housing Bill - this despite dozens of daily death threats. Churchill was one of the great leaders of the 20th Century but he's the one who ordered the gratuitous carpet-bombing of Dresden. Ike inserted the Shah in Iran but he also integrated the army. Mixed bags, all of them. Ike and JFK - they just happen to be my personal favorites.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-14176011651175533372008-12-28T15:34:00.000-08:002008-12-28T15:34:00.000-08:00Hmmm... interesting site, Will. I don't know if I...Hmmm... interesting <A HREF="http://thefuturewasyesterday.blogspot.com/" REL="nofollow">site</A>, Will. I don't know if I can find the actual post, but it's a good force.<BR/><BR/>Of course Eisenhower screwed up (no where near as badly as Chimpy): He was <B>human</B>. I am pretty much as progressive as they come, but I don't argue until I listen to the other person's opinion.<BR/><BR/>In fact, Kennedy did escalate in Viet Nam, then recognized his error and changed course. We also need to remember the Bay of Pigs, which put our nation precariously close to starting another world war. Again, Kennedy changed direction and acted wisely. As for me, I would have been overjoyed to see RFK as president. Obama reminds me more of him.<BR/><BR/>Mike, Warren is a bigot and a misogynist. However, this is Obama's selection, along with Rev. Joseph Lowrey, who is an extremely progressive minister. Obama is giving both perspectives a voice.<BR/><BR/>I agree with Will: both Ike and Goldwater probably would have been moderate Democrats today. Every president screwed up in some way. Wilson was an ass because he strongly went after the Suffragists, tortured them, and did not believe in women's right to vote; nor did TR, for that matter. If you don't believe me, look it up.<BR/><BR/>Mike, the "Clif" thing is a joke. Of course, not all Repubs are "indefensible morons." Despite TR's anti-woman stance, he also started the environmental program in this country.<BR/><BR/>I agree <I>Ike was basically a good man that was misled and had his presidency to an extent highjacked by radical Right wing ideologues like Dulles and Prescott Bush.</I> That would be the same Prescott Bush that traded with the Nazis during WWII, right? And I agree about Ike's disdain for Nixon.<BR/><BR/>And to "Anonymous" (hello, name please?) or "Clif," be careful. I got significant historical and political education. Obviously, from what I can read in Will's writing, so did he. There's no need to be rude: that behavior stymies understanding. I also agree with Will's responses. He, too, has much wisdom and deserves more respect on his blog.<BR/><BR/>Now, how do I join Obama's police force?Stella by Starlighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16385761338190877425noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-90000702845024754212008-12-28T08:19:00.000-08:002008-12-28T08:19:00.000-08:00The blog is called the Future was Yesterday. It wa...The blog is called the Future was Yesterday. It was about a year ago. Go check it out.Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-6115914725568481072008-12-27T22:24:00.000-08:002008-12-27T22:24:00.000-08:00Can you prove that?Can you prove that?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-46097669829856655502008-12-27T18:26:00.000-08:002008-12-27T18:26:00.000-08:00There's this blogger named Gadfly. He does a blog ...There's this blogger named Gadfly. He does a blog called the Future was Yesterdy. About a year ago this guy referred to me as a member of the "Obama police". Seriously! Go figure, huh?Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-59126949861918253442008-12-27T18:24:00.000-08:002008-12-27T18:24:00.000-08:00So much idiocy, so much paranoia, where do I start...So much idiocy, so much paranoia, where do I start? 1)The left isn't my enemy, bozo. I voted for Nader in 2000. I voted for Kerry in 2004. I voted for Ned LaMont (over Leibermann) in 2006. And I voted for Obama in 2008. And (just in this frigging post, for Christ!) I said that Obama reminded me of Eisenhower. I meant that as a compliment, Mike. God! 2) Not fair and balanced, huh? Well, I'll tell you one thing. I'm a hell of a lot more f. nad b. than your girlfriend there. Like I said "over there", if a President McCain had invited Rick Warren to speak at his inaugural, Lydia (with good reason) would have had an aneyurism. Obama does it, though, NOTHIN'! 3) I don't always defend the right, Mike. That is absolutely preposterous. I do just as many posts that are critical of the right. You just either ignore them or you paranoiacly see them as some sort of charade. Kind of makes it hard for me to win, doesn't it? As for THIS issue, I'm addressing it only because of Cliffy. He continues to propogate simplistic notions about Vietnam. And, besides, I mentioed Nixon, too, in my criticism. As best as I can recall, he was a Republican. 4) I never said you slammed Ike, Mike. This post was in response to Clif, etc.. No straw dog, brother. Only paranoia on your part. 5) Right-wing talking points, huh? For Christ sakes, Mike, your the one who labels people who disagree with you (yes, even part of the time). I don't agree with the religious right and I don't agree with the neocons. But I don't agree with collectively calling Republicans repugs. I like Olympia Snow, Susan Collins, Linc Chaffee, Chuck Hagel, Bill Cohen, Warren Rudman, etc.. You ever heard of Stewart McKinney, Mike? He was a Republican - a Republican who did more to help the homeless than a lot of Dems I know (the McKinney Act, google it). 6) As for these so-called wedge issues you mention, I tried to find common ground on abortion, the tax-code, and the auto bailout (I disagreed with you AND Rusty on this one). And on the torture and gay-rights issue, I've consistently sided with the LEFT!!!!! 7) As for the Democracy issue, I have a tendency to agree with you. But I also think that Obama makes a good point, too. Elections aren't always the magic bullet that we think they're going to be. Hopefully, I've cleared a few things up for you (not that I'm ever going to totally please you, of course).Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-63493027570682052012008-12-27T15:19:00.000-08:002008-12-27T15:19:00.000-08:00Why do you gleefully ALWAYS trot out Right wing ta...Why do you gleefully ALWAYS trot out Right wing talking points and wedge issues.........and why is ANYONE who disagrees with you and who you dislike "far left"...............its "interesting" that you seem to equate the left with your enemies but your not right wing bo sirree.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-77713884684204967982008-12-27T13:32:00.000-08:002008-12-27T13:32:00.000-08:00Finnally Will I have to ask you which side of this...Finnally Will I have to ask you which side of this issue are YOU actually on..............or as USUAL is it whichever one you can use to make the left look bad at the moment?<BR/><BR/>are you for democrartic elections or only for the ones that work out the way you want.<BR/><BR/><BR/>The way I see it there is only one answer for people who TRULY support democracy..........if you support democracy its none of our business who gets elected in another country we have neither the right to support or oppose elections in foreign countries nor to control or alter the outcome whether we like the results and who gets elected or not.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08956882396669105125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-55572631130949414452008-12-27T13:27:00.000-08:002008-12-27T13:27:00.000-08:00Will said "On the one hand, you have this bevy of ...Will said "On the one hand, you have this bevy of simpletonian bloggers. Their consistent message is that Eisenhower's blockage of the Vietnamese elections in 1954 caused the entire Vietnam War (never mind the fact that subsequent presidents lied and/or failed to de-escalate the situation)."<BR/><BR/><BR/>REALLY now Bill a "Bevy of BLOGGERSSSSSS" huh I believe you claimed to Stella that all the bloggers here are Clif.............so which is it mr doubletalk is there a Bevy of bloggerSSSSS in the plural claiming that or JUST CLIF?<BR/><BR/><BR/>Because I have NEVER said anything derogartory about Eisenhower thats YOUR strawman or lie take your pick........My first bookreport I did on Eisenhower..........I think Ike was basically a good man that was misled and had his presidency to an extent highjacked by radical Right wing ideologues like Dulles and Prescott Bush.<BR/><BR/>Ike was smart enough however to realize his presidency and foreign policy was highjacked by people who had their own best interessts at heart instead of regular Americans..........hence the beware of the Military industrial Complex speech and his disdain for Nixon who was a puppet of Duulles and Bush.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08956882396669105125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-58709821717302695702008-12-27T13:19:00.000-08:002008-12-27T13:19:00.000-08:00Will said "There seems to be a divide on the left ...Will said "There seems to be a divide on the left when it comes to elections"<BR/><BR/><BR/>REALLY and theres NO DIVIDE on the Right?<BR/><BR/>Why do you ALWAYS try to undermine and divide the Left but except for a few indefensible morons like Bush, Cheney, O'Reilly, you ALWAYS defend the Right.............but your not a partisan of course.<BR/><BR/><BR/>You did that with Rick Warren and you did that with the elections and thats only the past few days.<BR/><BR/>your delusional if you think your fair and balanced.Mikehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08956882396669105125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-1327826536005692170.post-86485574136145973802008-12-27T12:05:00.000-08:002008-12-27T12:05:00.000-08:00And it was us who caused him to kill and starve pe...And it was us who caused him to kill and starve people simply because they "owned" land? Oh, and who was it who refused to help Ho now? That would have been Truman, huh?Will "take no prisoners" Harthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02315659209094683602noreply@blogger.com